8 ms·

Come to the Netherlands. Sell your car. Buy a bike. A car is not really a status symbol here. Its more like a liability.

by TeeWEE 3y ago

pc86 3y ago
For what percentage of people in rural or suburban America do you think "move to the Netherlands" is a realistic suggestion?
- MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
  Just out of curiosity - how big of an issue is parking in rural US?
  - tekla 3y ago
    It's an issue when it takes 10m to walk to the Walmart entrance from the parking lot. (This is intended as humor)
    - MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
      Yeah, it's kind of a pity that once the cars vs bikes debate comes up, irony is often really not obvious. The best take on this topic so far I've seen has been from "Not Just Cars": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nZh7A7qTPo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nZh7A7qTPo
    - acchow 3y ago
      Sadly, sometimes in the US it takes just as long to walk within the parking lot as the equivalent total travel time would have been in a walkable European or Asian city
  - sleepybrett 3y ago
    In terms of 'will I have space to park my vehicle pretty much anywhere', little to none. In terms of, 'we could make way better use of all this land that's given over to parking' tons.
  - jabroni_salad 3y ago
    Warm season: no problem, go anywhere anytime and park for "free" except maybe at certain neighborhood churches on Sunday and big school functions. cold season: if the lines are covered by snow, all bets are off. Some capacity is lost to The Pile, but even more is lost due to nobody knowing how to just park next to somebody else.
- synetic 3y ago
  Clearly not a lot. It took the comment as a means of letting others know that American style asphalt parking jungles is not the only option. That there are healthier, more aesthetically pleasing, and more environmentally friendly alternatives to our way of life.
- CalRobert 3y ago
  The Dutch American Friendship Treaty makes it slightly more attainable than most other European countries, for those who employ themselves at least.
mikrl 3y ago
Are the buses any good if the weather turns? I rode a Dutch bus once or twice and it was jam packed. Some old lady even kept trying to insinuate that younger ladies on the bus grab onto me for support! The Amsterdam metro was very comfortable though and I can’t wait to ride it again.
CalRobert 3y ago
We arrive August 2nd. What would you recommend for newcomers? We've signed up with the gemeente and our daughters have spots in the Taalschool. Any ideas on how to meet people?
- rahkiin 3y ago
  Sports (your own or of your children), school (parent gatherings, extra activities involving parents) are great ways to meet people that are even in your age group. Get yourself bikes asap, also your children. No need for electrical bikes generally (depends on where you are going to live).
  - CalRobert 3y ago
    Already bringing my Brompton and Bacchetta (I might actually feel safe on a recumbent!) but we're sorting out a bakfiets when we get there. I'm delighted there's a lively Halloween group :-)
lucumo 3y ago
Nonsense. This is only true if you live in an inner city bubble. Cars are pretty popular ways of getting about in the suburbs and rural areas.
- throw0101a 3y ago
  Oh the Urbanity recently visited the Netherlands and did a profile video, "The Fascinating Human-Scale Urbanism of Dutch Suburbia": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nImFJ7KKjAo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nImFJ7KKjAo > Cars are pretty popular ways of getting about in the suburbs and rural areas. But how much are cars needed on a day-to-day basis for day-to-day errands? I don't think any is saying that they are not useful (at times), but you can have them be less necessary.
  - lucumo 3y ago
    Errands? I guess you could get by without a car. But then, you could get by without leaving the house for the most part, with groceries and other stuff delivered to your door. Still, the average number of cars per household is more than 1 in the suburbs. And that's no surprise really, because work is not in the suburbs. Especially not the jobs that pay enough to live in suburbia. If you're lucky the one bus line or tram line in your suburb goes to near your job. More commonly, it doesn't. Look, people use cars because they are practical. They are fucking expensive, so anyone who reasonably can do without, will. People in inner cities do not use cars that often, because a car is a heavier burden there. Parking is expensive and difficult in the city.
  - dahwolf 3y ago
    I'm Dutch and I want to push back against the glorification of our infrastructure. To comment on that video specifically: Yes, fully on board with the narrower streets, "hiding" parking, having some shared public space like playgrounds. These are all good things. But there's a flip side to this coin. This isn't necessarily a desired "way of life", it's what naturally evolved due to severe space constraints. I specifically take offense at high cost dense suburbia. You pay through the nose but still are not in some cool city. You have a tiny house and possibly noisy neighbors as well as less privacy. Suburbia can be denser but than it must be cheap. Dense expensive suburbia is the worst of all worlds.
tzs 3y ago
Yet a heck of a lot of people have cars there. Private car ownership in the Netherlands is around 590 per 1000 population. It's within 10% of Germany on cars per 1000 population and on percentage of families that own a car. The Netherlands stands out for its excellent biking facilities so that people who cannot afford a car are not screwed like they are in many places, and people with a car don't have to use it is as often, but car ownership there is in the same ballpark as most of the rest of Europe.
- ericmay 3y ago
  Yea but the cars are smaller and transit isn't designed exclusively around moving cars from one place to another. I can't even bike in my city because I'll get ran over. Comparing the numbers directly doesn't make a lot of sense.
  - wiredfool 3y ago
    I've seen more Large US Car/Pickups (think old full size van/suburban/pickup) in the Netherlands than anywhere else in Europe (with the exception of right outside of a US military facility).
    - rahkiin 3y ago
      And they should be banned as they are wrong on every scale and measurement. Our infrastructure is not made for those huge machines nor does anyone need one. If you need a car for a construction job, we have autobuses like VW Sprinter or Caddy for that
    - nerdbert 3y ago
      How much time have you spent here? That doesn't jibe with what I see at all. There are so many more giant truckish cars in France, Germany, and the UK than I see here in the Netherlands. I'm looking out my front window now and I see about 20 cars of which one is in the SUV form factor.
      - 3y ago
c4mpute 3y ago
The Netherlands do have huge bicycle parking lots and strict parking enforcement for bicycles. Bicycle parking is as bad as car parking over there. I'm glad I've only briefly visited there...
- sime2009 3y ago
  ha ha. You clearly don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about.
abdullahkhalids 3y ago
Here are the stats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_... Netherlands has 38th highest cars/capita. Austria, Scotland, Sweden, Denmark, Ireland, Hungary all have lower car ownership numbers. Though not that much lower. Why is this?
- nerdbert 3y ago
  Admittedly I live in a large, dense Dutch city, but the small number of people I know in the city who have cars only use them for DIY shopping and occasional weekend trips, not for everyday driving. People have enough disposable income to be able to afford one of their own, and avoid whatever real or perceived annoyances they associate with renting, but are not getting in them every morning. People I know in the suburbs and rural areas are much more likely to drive, but if they commute to a large city and have a train station in biking distance of their house then that's still how they do their daily.
- CalRobert 3y ago
  The Dutch are wealthy, for one. And older (average age around 42, vs 38 for Ireland for instance). I don't actually mind cars existing. I just don't like it when they become the only option for most trips due to bad design choices, or when I am made to pay for other people's motoring.
GaryNumanVevo 3y ago
What's funny about this is the Netherlands has some of the BEST roads I've ever driven on. They also have some of the best sound-damping on their highways and bridges. Wonderful to see tax dollars actually going into transit infrastructure.

Come to the Netherlands. Sell your car. Buy a bike. A car is not really a status symbol here. Its more like a liability.

by TeeWEE 3y ago

Come to the Netherlands. Sell your car. Buy a bike. A car is not really a status symbol here. Its more like a liability.

pc86 3y ago

For what percentage of people in rural or suburban America do you think "move to the Netherlands" is a realistic suggestion?

MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
Just out of curiosity - how big of an issue is parking in rural US?
- tekla 3y ago
  It's an issue when it takes 10m to walk to the Walmart entrance from the parking lot. (This is intended as humor)
  - MezzoDelCammin 3y ago
    Yeah, it's kind of a pity that once the cars vs bikes debate comes up, irony is often really not obvious. The best take on this topic so far I've seen has been from "Not Just Cars": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nZh7A7qTPo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nZh7A7qTPo
  - acchow 3y ago
    Sadly, sometimes in the US it takes just as long to walk within the parking lot as the equivalent total travel time would have been in a walkable European or Asian city
- sleepybrett 3y ago
  In terms of 'will I have space to park my vehicle pretty much anywhere', little to none. In terms of, 'we could make way better use of all this land that's given over to parking' tons.
- jabroni_salad 3y ago
  Warm season: no problem, go anywhere anytime and park for "free" except maybe at certain neighborhood churches on Sunday and big school functions. cold season: if the lines are covered by snow, all bets are off. Some capacity is lost to The Pile, but even more is lost due to nobody knowing how to just park next to somebody else.
synetic 3y ago
Clearly not a lot. It took the comment as a means of letting others know that American style asphalt parking jungles is not the only option. That there are healthier, more aesthetically pleasing, and more environmentally friendly alternatives to our way of life.
CalRobert 3y ago
The Dutch American Friendship Treaty makes it slightly more attainable than most other European countries, for those who employ themselves at least.

mikrl 3y ago

Are the buses any good if the weather turns? I rode a Dutch bus once or twice and it was jam packed. Some old lady even kept trying to insinuate that younger ladies on the bus grab onto me for support! The Amsterdam metro was very comfortable though and I can’t wait to ride it again.

CalRobert 3y ago

We arrive August 2nd. What would you recommend for newcomers? We've signed up with the gemeente and our daughters have spots in the Taalschool. Any ideas on how to meet people?

rahkiin 3y ago
Sports (your own or of your children), school (parent gatherings, extra activities involving parents) are great ways to meet people that are even in your age group. Get yourself bikes asap, also your children. No need for electrical bikes generally (depends on where you are going to live).
- CalRobert 3y ago
  Already bringing my Brompton and Bacchetta (I might actually feel safe on a recumbent!) but we're sorting out a bakfiets when we get there. I'm delighted there's a lively Halloween group :-)

lucumo 3y ago

Nonsense. This is only true if you live in an inner city bubble. Cars are pretty popular ways of getting about in the suburbs and rural areas.

throw0101a 3y ago
Oh the Urbanity recently visited the Netherlands and did a profile video, "The Fascinating Human-Scale Urbanism of Dutch Suburbia": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nImFJ7KKjAo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nImFJ7KKjAo > Cars are pretty popular ways of getting about in the suburbs and rural areas. But how much are cars needed on a day-to-day basis for day-to-day errands? I don't think any is saying that they are not useful (at times), but you can have them be less necessary.
- lucumo 3y ago
  Errands? I guess you could get by without a car. But then, you could get by without leaving the house for the most part, with groceries and other stuff delivered to your door. Still, the average number of cars per household is more than 1 in the suburbs. And that's no surprise really, because work is not in the suburbs. Especially not the jobs that pay enough to live in suburbia. If you're lucky the one bus line or tram line in your suburb goes to near your job. More commonly, it doesn't. Look, people use cars because they are practical. They are fucking expensive, so anyone who reasonably can do without, will. People in inner cities do not use cars that often, because a car is a heavier burden there. Parking is expensive and difficult in the city.
- dahwolf 3y ago
  I'm Dutch and I want to push back against the glorification of our infrastructure. To comment on that video specifically: Yes, fully on board with the narrower streets, "hiding" parking, having some shared public space like playgrounds. These are all good things. But there's a flip side to this coin. This isn't necessarily a desired "way of life", it's what naturally evolved due to severe space constraints. I specifically take offense at high cost dense suburbia. You pay through the nose but still are not in some cool city. You have a tiny house and possibly noisy neighbors as well as less privacy. Suburbia can be denser but than it must be cheap. Dense expensive suburbia is the worst of all worlds.

tzs 3y ago

Yet a heck of a lot of people have cars there. Private car ownership in the Netherlands is around 590 per 1000 population. It's within 10% of Germany on cars per 1000 population and on percentage of families that own a car. The Netherlands stands out for its excellent biking facilities so that people who cannot afford a car are not screwed like they are in many places, and people with a car don't have to use it is as often, but car ownership there is in the same ballpark as most of the rest of Europe.

ericmay 3y ago
Yea but the cars are smaller and transit isn't designed exclusively around moving cars from one place to another. I can't even bike in my city because I'll get ran over. Comparing the numbers directly doesn't make a lot of sense.
- wiredfool 3y ago
  I've seen more Large US Car/Pickups (think old full size van/suburban/pickup) in the Netherlands than anywhere else in Europe (with the exception of right outside of a US military facility).
  - rahkiin 3y ago
    And they should be banned as they are wrong on every scale and measurement. Our infrastructure is not made for those huge machines nor does anyone need one. If you need a car for a construction job, we have autobuses like VW Sprinter or Caddy for that
  - nerdbert 3y ago
    How much time have you spent here? That doesn't jibe with what I see at all. There are so many more giant truckish cars in France, Germany, and the UK than I see here in the Netherlands. I'm looking out my front window now and I see about 20 cars of which one is in the SUV form factor.
    - 3y ago

c4mpute 3y ago

The Netherlands do have huge bicycle parking lots and strict parking enforcement for bicycles. Bicycle parking is as bad as car parking over there. I'm glad I've only briefly visited there...

sime2009 3y ago
ha ha. You clearly don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

abdullahkhalids 3y ago

Here are the stats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_... Netherlands has 38th highest cars/capita. Austria, Scotland, Sweden, Denmark, Ireland, Hungary all have lower car ownership numbers. Though not that much lower. Why is this?

nerdbert 3y ago
Admittedly I live in a large, dense Dutch city, but the small number of people I know in the city who have cars only use them for DIY shopping and occasional weekend trips, not for everyday driving. People have enough disposable income to be able to afford one of their own, and avoid whatever real or perceived annoyances they associate with renting, but are not getting in them every morning. People I know in the suburbs and rural areas are much more likely to drive, but if they commute to a large city and have a train station in biking distance of their house then that's still how they do their daily.
CalRobert 3y ago
The Dutch are wealthy, for one. And older (average age around 42, vs 38 for Ireland for instance). I don't actually mind cars existing. I just don't like it when they become the only option for most trips due to bad design choices, or when I am made to pay for other people's motoring.

GaryNumanVevo 3y ago

What's funny about this is the Netherlands has some of the BEST roads I've ever driven on. They also have some of the best sound-damping on their highways and bridges. Wonderful to see tax dollars actually going into transit infrastructure.