3 ms·

Obama Beat Europe

2 points by amadeuspagel 3y ago

palata 3y ago
> “in 2008 the EU’s economy was somewhat larger than America’s: $16.2 trillion versus $14.7 trillion. By 2022, the US economy had grown to $25tn, whereas the EU and the UK together had only reached $19.8 trillion.” 2008 was the peak of conventional oil, which affects Europe more than the US (who managed to postpone the peak with fracking, I guess?). One can say that this was a great choice by the US, maybe. I would say that this is short-sighted. Anyway, there will be a peak for fossil fuels, so we need to go away from them. At the same time, fossil fuels are the cause for climate change, which is getting us in a very, very, very bad situation. The only way would be for every country to lower their fossil consumption. But of course, that would not make for a great "we beat the neighbour" article. At the end of the day, we are all living on the same planet. That the US beats the EU at the race for destroying it faster is, in my opinion, not a great achievement.
- amadeuspagel 3y ago
  > This notably doesn’t even come at the expense of decarbonization. The existence of cheap natural gas as backup lets you take advantage of cheap renewables without worrying too much about harder problems like batteries. Powering a factory with gas causes fewer emissions than running it off coal. Powering a car using a mix of gas and renewables generates radically fewer emissions than running it off gasoline. There is obviously a margin at which this ceases to be true, but it’s not the margin we are currently operating on. > Europe, meanwhile, didn’t actually quit fossil fuels by banning fracking. It just imported the gas from Russia instead.
  - palata 3y ago
    > The existence of cheap natural gas as backup lets you take advantage of cheap renewables without worrying too much about harder problems like batteries. Which is actually a good way to fail with renewables: "let's make renewables that fundamentally depend on fossil fuel". > Europe, meanwhile, didn’t actually quit fossil fuels by banning fracking. It just imported the gas from Russia instead. Yes, that's a problem. Europe should work on degrowth in order to depend less on fossil fuels.

2 points by amadeuspagel 3y ago

> “in 2008 the EU’s economy was somewhat larger than America’s: $16.2 trillion versus $14.7 trillion. By 2022, the US economy had grown to $25tn, whereas the EU and the UK together had only reached $19.8 trillion.” 2008 was the peak of conventional oil, which affects Europe more than the US (who managed to postpone the peak with fracking, I guess?). One can say that this was a great choice by the US, maybe. I would say that this is short-sighted. Anyway, there will be a peak for fossil fuels, so we need to go away from them. At the same time, fossil fuels are the cause for climate change, which is getting us in a very, very, very bad situation. The only way would be for every country to lower their fossil consumption. But of course, that would not make for a great "we beat the neighbour" article. At the end of the day, we are all living on the same planet. That the US beats the EU at the race for destroying it faster is, in my opinion, not a great achievement.

amadeuspagel 3y ago
> This notably doesn’t even come at the expense of decarbonization. The existence of cheap natural gas as backup lets you take advantage of cheap renewables without worrying too much about harder problems like batteries. Powering a factory with gas causes fewer emissions than running it off coal. Powering a car using a mix of gas and renewables generates radically fewer emissions than running it off gasoline. There is obviously a margin at which this ceases to be true, but it’s not the margin we are currently operating on. > Europe, meanwhile, didn’t actually quit fossil fuels by banning fracking. It just imported the gas from Russia instead.
- palata 3y ago
  > The existence of cheap natural gas as backup lets you take advantage of cheap renewables without worrying too much about harder problems like batteries. Which is actually a good way to fail with renewables: "let's make renewables that fundamentally depend on fossil fuel". > Europe, meanwhile, didn’t actually quit fossil fuels by banning fracking. It just imported the gas from Russia instead. Yes, that's a problem. Europe should work on degrowth in order to depend less on fossil fuels.