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> It was stolen from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic and 'gifted' to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic by a man [0] who used to the head

by _kbh_ 3y ago

> It was stolen from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic and 'gifted' to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic by a man [0] who used to the head of Ukrainian Communist party before becoming the leader of the USSR. So what you're saying it was transferred from one state to another by the head of that state, under the laws and rules of the state at the time?. Nothing was stolen, you're just mad of Russias past actions. "stolen from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic" That's quite a frivolous use of the word 'stolen' devoiding it of any meaning besides 'bad!!!!!!!!1'.

gdy 3y ago
You are confusing the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
- chrysler 3y ago
  In a totalitarian one-party state without a separation of powers, that's a distinction without a difference.
  - gdy 3y ago
    The difference is quite obvious -- RSFSR was about half of the USSR's population.
    - chrysler 3y ago
      Doesn't make any practical difference. Soviet "republics" were as independent as Reichskommissariat Niederlande. Internal borders were freely redrawn and native populations resettled to satisfy Soviet colonial policies. If you want to start settling old scores and reversing "historical injustices", you can demonstrate good faith by giving Estonia back the 5% of its territory that is still occupied by Russia. Not to mention China's grievances about "humiliations" and "injustices" regarding the Russian Far East.
      - gdy 3y ago
        "Doesn't make any practical difference." Yes, it does. You are confusing 'Russian' and 'Soviet'. "Soviet colonial policies" That was funny. You are confusing with your colonial past. "If you want to start settling old scores" It's not about that. Russia was fine with the Crimea belonging to the Ukraine while it didn't matter much for Russia and for Crimeans themselves. That was until the nationalists took power in 2014 with the help of American 'midwifing' (quoting Obama here). "you can demonstrate good faith" USSR demonstrated good faith when it greenlighted reunification of Germany and got assurances that NATO won't expand to the east. Look how that worked out.
        _kbh_ 3y ago
        > USSR demonstrated good faith when it greenlighted reunification of Germany and got assurances that NATO won't expand to the east. Look how that worked out. Of all the Russian propaganda you pick the one piece that was super easy to debunk, Gorbachev himself said this never happened. The negotiations were always about NATO expanding into east Germany and not east in general. NATO still isn’t in the former east Germany anyway. I’m pretty sure I or others have told you this many times before though so I have to start questioning is you are posting in good faith or if your posting to push an agenda?.
        gdy 3y ago
        "Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner" [0] [0] https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017...
        _kbh_ 3y ago
        That isn't a counter to a primary source that says he never discussed it. Although I do know that NATO Expansion is another historical grievance Russia has (getting lots of these aren't they) because Russia is very much pro being able to invade states, and NATO stops that.

by _kbh_ 3y ago

gdy 3y ago

You are confusing the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

chrysler 3y ago
In a totalitarian one-party state without a separation of powers, that's a distinction without a difference.
- gdy 3y ago
  The difference is quite obvious -- RSFSR was about half of the USSR's population.
  - chrysler 3y ago
    Doesn't make any practical difference. Soviet "republics" were as independent as Reichskommissariat Niederlande. Internal borders were freely redrawn and native populations resettled to satisfy Soviet colonial policies. If you want to start settling old scores and reversing "historical injustices", you can demonstrate good faith by giving Estonia back the 5% of its territory that is still occupied by Russia. Not to mention China's grievances about "humiliations" and "injustices" regarding the Russian Far East.
    - gdy 3y ago
      "Doesn't make any practical difference." Yes, it does. You are confusing 'Russian' and 'Soviet'. "Soviet colonial policies" That was funny. You are confusing with your colonial past. "If you want to start settling old scores" It's not about that. Russia was fine with the Crimea belonging to the Ukraine while it didn't matter much for Russia and for Crimeans themselves. That was until the nationalists took power in 2014 with the help of American 'midwifing' (quoting Obama here). "you can demonstrate good faith" USSR demonstrated good faith when it greenlighted reunification of Germany and got assurances that NATO won't expand to the east. Look how that worked out.
      - _kbh_ 3y ago
        > USSR demonstrated good faith when it greenlighted reunification of Germany and got assurances that NATO won't expand to the east. Look how that worked out. Of all the Russian propaganda you pick the one piece that was super easy to debunk, Gorbachev himself said this never happened. The negotiations were always about NATO expanding into east Germany and not east in general. NATO still isn’t in the former east Germany anyway. I’m pretty sure I or others have told you this many times before though so I have to start questioning is you are posting in good faith or if your posting to push an agenda?.
        gdy 3y ago
        "Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner" [0] [0] https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017...
        _kbh_ 3y ago
        That isn't a counter to a primary source that says he never discussed it. Although I do know that NATO Expansion is another historical grievance Russia has (getting lots of these aren't they) because Russia is very much pro being able to invade states, and NATO stops that.