4 ms·

I’m currently nearing the end of section 5 of the the Spanish duolingo course which is lower B1 level and I watched a Spanish film with only Spanish subtitles o

by rcarr 3y ago

I’m currently nearing the end of section 5 of the the Spanish duolingo course which is lower B1 level and I watched a Spanish film with only Spanish subtitles on for the first time a few weeks ago. I could definitely hear a lot of the words but I wouldn’t have been able to follow along if I didn’t have the subtitles because my brain just isn’t at the point where it can decode the speech in real time. But if I watched it a few times I think I would have been able to. It’s complicated by the fact that Duolingo Spanish accents are probably closest to Mexican accents whereas Spanish speakers like in the film have a much softer and lispier accent than the Latin American areas. When I watched a Mexican film a while back I was pleasantly surprised by how easy I was finding listening compared to the Spanish tv show I had been watching earlier. I agree that you’ve got to branch out (otherwise what is the point of learning the language) but the Spanish and French courses on Duolingo give you a solid foundation.

david-gpu 3y ago
> whereas Spanish speakers like in the film have a much softer and lispier accent A person who pronounces the words "think" and "sink" differently doesn't have a "lisp". The same is true in Spanish with words such as "zaca" and "saca" -- See? They are even written differently! This phenomenon is called "distinción" [0]. The lack of this distinction, which is what we see in most of Latin America is called "seseo". All of this is to say: please stop calling it a lisp. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_Spanish_coronal_fricatives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_Spanis...
- rcarr 3y ago
  I'm glad you have informed me of what this term is but that being said, anyone who doesn't know that term (which is probably 99.9% of English speakers) is not going to have any idea what I'm talking about. If I say "the main difference in pronunciation between Latin America and Spain is that Latin America have a lack of distinction in their pronunciation which is called seseo" no-one is going to know what I'm talking about whereas if I say "the main difference in pronunciation between Latin America and Spain is that Spanish sounds a bit softer and more lispy" everyone knows what I'm talking about immediately. I also don't consider it particularly offensive, there is no mocking of anyone with a lisp in that sentence.
  - david-gpu 3y ago
    > if I say "the main difference in pronunciation between Latin America and Spain is that Spanish sounds a bit softer and more lispy" everyone knows what I'm talking about immediately And if you were to say that "the main difference in pronunciation between straight and gay men is that gay men sound softer and more lispy" everybody knows what you are talking about immediately too. Also, "you may not consider it particularly offensive, there is no mocking of anyone with a lisp in that sentence". The reality of it is that as a Spaniard I am just tired of Latin Americans constantly making fun of our dialect, so forgive me for politely informing a foreigner that our dialect is not a lisp. Now please carry on explaining how much you don't find it offensive. It makes all the difference.
    - rcarr 3y ago
      So the entire English speaking world should study the linguistics of Spanish in order to accommodate your specific annoyances, annoyances you have with bullies from Spanish speaking countries and not English ones? That's like getting mad with any regular person for saying "gnomes are short like dwarves" because you're a dwarf and some tall guy at school decided to bully you for being short and called you a gnome.
      - david-gpu 3y ago
        A foreigner studying Spanish repeats an insult commonly thrown at Spaniards. A Spaniard very politely informs them about it. The foreigner doubles down instead of, saying something like "Hey, I didn't know that. Sorry for repeating a common misconception". You do you, man. Why learn and do better when you can show everybody your true colors? Have an excellent day!
        rcarr 3y ago
        Not only do words have multiple meanings, the intention of how they are used is also important. I didn't use the word as a noun or an insult, I used it as an adjective to describe the sound to a fellow english speaker. The fact that you are so offended about it speaks volumes about you because your attitude suggests you don't want to be associated with those with lisps, presumably because you see it as shameful.

by rcarr 3y ago

david-gpu 3y ago

> whereas Spanish speakers like in the film have a much softer and lispier accent A person who pronounces the words "think" and "sink" differently doesn't have a "lisp". The same is true in Spanish with words such as "zaca" and "saca" -- See? They are even written differently! This phenomenon is called "distinción" [0]. The lack of this distinction, which is what we see in most of Latin America is called "seseo". All of this is to say: please stop calling it a lisp. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_Spanish_coronal_fricatives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_Spanis...

rcarr 3y ago
I'm glad you have informed me of what this term is but that being said, anyone who doesn't know that term (which is probably 99.9% of English speakers) is not going to have any idea what I'm talking about. If I say "the main difference in pronunciation between Latin America and Spain is that Latin America have a lack of distinction in their pronunciation which is called seseo" no-one is going to know what I'm talking about whereas if I say "the main difference in pronunciation between Latin America and Spain is that Spanish sounds a bit softer and more lispy" everyone knows what I'm talking about immediately. I also don't consider it particularly offensive, there is no mocking of anyone with a lisp in that sentence.
- david-gpu 3y ago
  > if I say "the main difference in pronunciation between Latin America and Spain is that Spanish sounds a bit softer and more lispy" everyone knows what I'm talking about immediately And if you were to say that "the main difference in pronunciation between straight and gay men is that gay men sound softer and more lispy" everybody knows what you are talking about immediately too. Also, "you may not consider it particularly offensive, there is no mocking of anyone with a lisp in that sentence". The reality of it is that as a Spaniard I am just tired of Latin Americans constantly making fun of our dialect, so forgive me for politely informing a foreigner that our dialect is not a lisp. Now please carry on explaining how much you don't find it offensive. It makes all the difference.
  - rcarr 3y ago
    So the entire English speaking world should study the linguistics of Spanish in order to accommodate your specific annoyances, annoyances you have with bullies from Spanish speaking countries and not English ones? That's like getting mad with any regular person for saying "gnomes are short like dwarves" because you're a dwarf and some tall guy at school decided to bully you for being short and called you a gnome.
    - david-gpu 3y ago
      A foreigner studying Spanish repeats an insult commonly thrown at Spaniards. A Spaniard very politely informs them about it. The foreigner doubles down instead of, saying something like "Hey, I didn't know that. Sorry for repeating a common misconception". You do you, man. Why learn and do better when you can show everybody your true colors? Have an excellent day!
      - rcarr 3y ago
        Not only do words have multiple meanings, the intention of how they are used is also important. I didn't use the word as a noun or an insult, I used it as an adjective to describe the sound to a fellow english speaker. The fact that you are so offended about it speaks volumes about you because your attitude suggests you don't want to be associated with those with lisps, presumably because you see it as shameful.