8 ms·

> Yes, Crimea was stolen in 1954, but in 2014 it reunited with Russia. I see your back with your delusions. How exactly did the USSR which had control of Crim

by _kbh_ 3y ago

> Yes, Crimea was stolen in 1954, but in 2014 it reunited with Russia. I see your back with your delusions. How exactly did the USSR which had control of Crimea exactly steal Crimea from itself, to give it to a part of itself?. Don't worry the terrorist occupiers in Crimea will be removed soon enough.

gdy 3y ago
[flagged]
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  > It was stolen from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic and 'gifted' to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic by a man [0] who used to the head of Ukrainian Communist party before becoming the leader of the USSR. So what you're saying it was transferred from one state to another by the head of that state, under the laws and rules of the state at the time?. Nothing was stolen, you're just mad of Russias past actions. "stolen from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic" That's quite a frivolous use of the word 'stolen' devoiding it of any meaning besides 'bad!!!!!!!!1'.
  - gdy 3y ago
    You are confusing the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
    - chrysler 3y ago
      In a totalitarian one-party state without a separation of powers, that's a distinction without a difference.
      - gdy 3y ago
        The difference is quite obvious -- RSFSR was about half of the USSR's population.
        chrysler 3y ago
        Doesn't make any practical difference. Soviet "republics" were as independent as Reichskommissariat Niederlande. Internal borders were freely redrawn and native populations resettled to satisfy Soviet colonial policies. If you want to start settling old scores and reversing "historical injustices", you can demonstrate good faith by giving Estonia back the 5% of its territory that is still occupied by Russia. Not to mention China's grievances about "humiliations" and "injustices" regarding the Russian Far East.
        gdy 3y ago
        "Doesn't make any practical difference." Yes, it does. You are confusing 'Russian' and 'Soviet'. "Soviet colonial policies" That was funny. You are confusing with your colonial past. "If you want to start settling old scores" It's not about that. Russia was fine with the Crimea belonging to the Ukraine while it didn't matter much for Russia and for Crimeans themselves. That was until the nationalists took power in 2014 with the help of American 'midwifing' (quoting Obama here). "you can demonstrate good faith" USSR demonstrated good faith when it greenlighted reunification of Germany and got assurances that NATO won't expand to the east. Look how that worked out.
        _kbh_ 3y ago
        > USSR demonstrated good faith when it greenlighted reunification of Germany and got assurances that NATO won't expand to the east. Look how that worked out. Of all the Russian propaganda you pick the one piece that was super easy to debunk, Gorbachev himself said this never happened. The negotiations were always about NATO expanding into east Germany and not east in general. NATO still isn’t in the former east Germany anyway. I’m pretty sure I or others have told you this many times before though so I have to start questioning is you are posting in good faith or if your posting to push an agenda?.
        gdy 3y ago
        "Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner" [0] [0] https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017...
- lisasays 3y ago
  And how did Russia come to "own" the peninsula again? What happened to its original inhabitants? Which treaty did the RF sign in 1994 pledging to respect existing borders of Ukraine -- including its sovereignty over the Crimea -- for perpetuity? Tell us more, please.
  - gdy 3y ago
    "And how did Russia come to "own" the peninsula again?" By fighting the Ottoman Empire and their protectorate -- the remains of the Golden Horde known as Crimean Khanate [0]. The last was busy raiding Russia and selling captured slaves to Ottomans [1]. The Golden Horde, in case you don't know, is itself one the remains of the Mongol Empire. "What happened to its original inhabitants?" Scythians [2] and Tauri [3] were assimilated by Sarmatians and later were partly destroyed and party assimilated by Goths. Why did you ask? "Which treaty" It looks like you are asking in bad faith and already know the answer. When circumstances change treaties become obsolete. Ever heard of Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, for example? [4] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_the_Crimean_Khanate_by_the_Russian_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_the_Crimean_Khan... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean%E2%80%93Nogai_slave_raids_in_Eastern_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean%E2%80%93Nogai_slave_ra... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythia_Minor_(Crimea) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythia_Minor_(Crimea) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauri [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty
    - lisasays 3y ago
      Why did you ask? Probably because you keep neglecting to mention, for some strange reason, the ethnic group that made up some 90 percent of the population the peninsula at the time of the (not so peaceful) 1783 annexation. Let alone what, specifically, happened to them in the summer of '44. And how obscenely ridiculous it is, as a result -- to say that the peninsula was "Russian for 200 years" prior to the 1955 transfer. ABM Except the US didn't just thumb their noses at, and start violating willy-nilly (like Russia did with the 1994 treaty you are so hesitant to name). Rather - it had an opt-out clause which Bush chose to enact, giving the required 6 months notice.
dang 3y ago
Edit: I took a closer look, and it turns out that you've been posting abusively to HN for quite some time and using the site primarily for battle and flamewar. I've therefore banned this account. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. --- original comment below --- I understand that these are passion-activating topics and that a war is being fought over them right now. Still, it's not ok to take HN threads into hellish flamewars, so please don't do this here. HN is for curious conversation on topics of intellectual interest. That requires thoughtfulness, respect for others, and even a certain playfulness. If you're not in that state about a topic, please don't post on that topic for the time being. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

by _kbh_ 3y ago

gdy 3y ago

[flagged]

_kbh_ 3y ago
> It was stolen from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic and 'gifted' to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic by a man [0] who used to the head of Ukrainian Communist party before becoming the leader of the USSR. So what you're saying it was transferred from one state to another by the head of that state, under the laws and rules of the state at the time?. Nothing was stolen, you're just mad of Russias past actions. "stolen from the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic" That's quite a frivolous use of the word 'stolen' devoiding it of any meaning besides 'bad!!!!!!!!1'.
- gdy 3y ago
  You are confusing the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
  - chrysler 3y ago
    In a totalitarian one-party state without a separation of powers, that's a distinction without a difference.
    - gdy 3y ago
      The difference is quite obvious -- RSFSR was about half of the USSR's population.
      - chrysler 3y ago
        Doesn't make any practical difference. Soviet "republics" were as independent as Reichskommissariat Niederlande. Internal borders were freely redrawn and native populations resettled to satisfy Soviet colonial policies. If you want to start settling old scores and reversing "historical injustices", you can demonstrate good faith by giving Estonia back the 5% of its territory that is still occupied by Russia. Not to mention China's grievances about "humiliations" and "injustices" regarding the Russian Far East.
        gdy 3y ago
        "Doesn't make any practical difference." Yes, it does. You are confusing 'Russian' and 'Soviet'. "Soviet colonial policies" That was funny. You are confusing with your colonial past. "If you want to start settling old scores" It's not about that. Russia was fine with the Crimea belonging to the Ukraine while it didn't matter much for Russia and for Crimeans themselves. That was until the nationalists took power in 2014 with the help of American 'midwifing' (quoting Obama here). "you can demonstrate good faith" USSR demonstrated good faith when it greenlighted reunification of Germany and got assurances that NATO won't expand to the east. Look how that worked out.
        _kbh_ 3y ago
        > USSR demonstrated good faith when it greenlighted reunification of Germany and got assurances that NATO won't expand to the east. Look how that worked out. Of all the Russian propaganda you pick the one piece that was super easy to debunk, Gorbachev himself said this never happened. The negotiations were always about NATO expanding into east Germany and not east in general. NATO still isn’t in the former east Germany anyway. I’m pretty sure I or others have told you this many times before though so I have to start questioning is you are posting in good faith or if your posting to push an agenda?.
        gdy 3y ago
        "Declassified documents show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner" [0] [0] https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017...
lisasays 3y ago
And how did Russia come to "own" the peninsula again? What happened to its original inhabitants? Which treaty did the RF sign in 1994 pledging to respect existing borders of Ukraine -- including its sovereignty over the Crimea -- for perpetuity? Tell us more, please.
- gdy 3y ago
  "And how did Russia come to "own" the peninsula again?" By fighting the Ottoman Empire and their protectorate -- the remains of the Golden Horde known as Crimean Khanate [0]. The last was busy raiding Russia and selling captured slaves to Ottomans [1]. The Golden Horde, in case you don't know, is itself one the remains of the Mongol Empire. "What happened to its original inhabitants?" Scythians [2] and Tauri [3] were assimilated by Sarmatians and later were partly destroyed and party assimilated by Goths. Why did you ask? "Which treaty" It looks like you are asking in bad faith and already know the answer. When circumstances change treaties become obsolete. Ever heard of Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, for example? [4] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_the_Crimean_Khanate_by_the_Russian_Empire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_the_Crimean_Khan... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean%E2%80%93Nogai_slave_raids_in_Eastern_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean%E2%80%93Nogai_slave_ra... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythia_Minor_(Crimea) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythia_Minor_(Crimea) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauri [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty
  - lisasays 3y ago
    Why did you ask? Probably because you keep neglecting to mention, for some strange reason, the ethnic group that made up some 90 percent of the population the peninsula at the time of the (not so peaceful) 1783 annexation. Let alone what, specifically, happened to them in the summer of '44. And how obscenely ridiculous it is, as a result -- to say that the peninsula was "Russian for 200 years" prior to the 1955 transfer. ABM Except the US didn't just thumb their noses at, and start violating willy-nilly (like Russia did with the 1994 treaty you are so hesitant to name). Rather - it had an opt-out clause which Bush chose to enact, giving the required 6 months notice.

dang 3y ago

Edit: I took a closer look, and it turns out that you've been posting abusively to HN for quite some time and using the site primarily for battle and flamewar. I've therefore banned this account. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. --- original comment below --- I understand that these are passion-activating topics and that a war is being fought over them right now. Still, it's not ok to take HN threads into hellish flamewars, so please don't do this here. HN is for curious conversation on topics of intellectual interest. That requires thoughtfulness, respect for others, and even a certain playfulness. If you're not in that state about a topic, please don't post on that topic for the time being. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html