5 ms·

It doesn't matter their method of study, the question is legit nonetheless. Spoken language is harder to learn.

MattPalmer1086 3y ago
Is it? I have studied languages at school and using apps and never really achieved any fluency or understanding of spoken or written language. I lived in Spain for a bit over 3 months when I was a young man and became fluent in spoken Spanish. To the point I started thinking in Spanish but never noticed when that happened. So the method of learning really does seem to matter, at least for me.
- awelxtr 3y ago
  So you spent 16*90 = ~1440h practicing spoken Spanish. I do believe that if you spent the same amount of time but focused on written Spanish you would acquire a richer vocabulary.
  - magicalhippo 3y ago
    Something happens when you are immersed in it. English is my second language. We started learning it in school when I was 10. My first trip to England, and my first serious use of English, was when I was 16. I went to a summer youth camp of sorts, and there were no one I could communicate with using my primary language. The first day was rough, I had trouble understanding the English dialects and making myself understood. It got gradually better. On the fifth day I had a 30 minute conversation with a native, before they asked where I was from. When I said Norway they looked very surprised. Turned out they thought I was a native too, they just struggled to place my dialect. When it was over my parents picked me up. We all spoke Norwegian as they asked me about my stay. Not even half an hour later I asked for something in a shop and it was instantly obvious my English was back to how it had been on day one... Sure quantity of exposure helps, but I think something happens when you're immersed in it with no option but to try to understand or be understood. If you have an escape hatch it just isn't the same.
    - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
      Yes, I came to the same conclusion that immersion is key.
  - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
    I hardly spent 16 solid hours a day practicing spoken Spanish, i.e. every waking hour. Maybe you are a lot more talkative than I am!
zihotki 3y ago
It's not harder, it just requires different type of fitness. For example, there is a very good and highly effective, although intensive, way to learn to speak Dutch - Delftse Methode. There they focus on building speaking skills by, surprise-surprise, a lot of speaking, training and remembering standard situations. I think, there may be similar methods for other languages.
hrnnnnnn 3y ago
I think it probably depends on how far the writing system is from your own. Imagine you were coming from the English alphabet and learning Japanese. You put in the same number of learning hours, but in one scenario you only learn the written language, and in the other scenario only the spoken. I think you'd probably learn more from the spoken language. Spoken language is higher bandwidth. Tone of voice, melody and rhythm can convey a lot of extra information with the same words. Plus if you're getting the spoken language in real life or from video, there's probably a bunch of extra context that makes it easier to understand. Even better, if you're talking to someone willing to help you learn, they will simplify their speech and start using gestures to help you understand. I can accept that, as in the article, for someone who's spent all their time on written language spoken language will seem harder. I've split my time equally between the two and neither seems "harder" than the other. For what it's worth, my target language also uses the latin alphabet.
trilbyglens 3y ago
Ya not sure about that one tbh. I have lived in the Czech republic for about 15 years, and I speak fluent Czech and but reading is quite different. It's highly individual of course but I managed to become fluent with a 6 month low intensity course, and then about 5 years of just intently listening, asking questions, and grinding it out. That's the only way imo to really learn to speak. Classes and books are shit compared to having monolingual in-laws or being forced to navigate life using the thing. Immersion beats all else, including intense study.

Is it? I have studied languages at school and using apps and never really achieved any fluency or understanding of spoken or written language. I lived in Spain for a bit over 3 months when I was a young man and became fluent in spoken Spanish. To the point I started thinking in Spanish but never noticed when that happened. So the method of learning really does seem to matter, at least for me.

awelxtr 3y ago
So you spent 16*90 = ~1440h practicing spoken Spanish. I do believe that if you spent the same amount of time but focused on written Spanish you would acquire a richer vocabulary.
- magicalhippo 3y ago
  Something happens when you are immersed in it. English is my second language. We started learning it in school when I was 10. My first trip to England, and my first serious use of English, was when I was 16. I went to a summer youth camp of sorts, and there were no one I could communicate with using my primary language. The first day was rough, I had trouble understanding the English dialects and making myself understood. It got gradually better. On the fifth day I had a 30 minute conversation with a native, before they asked where I was from. When I said Norway they looked very surprised. Turned out they thought I was a native too, they just struggled to place my dialect. When it was over my parents picked me up. We all spoke Norwegian as they asked me about my stay. Not even half an hour later I asked for something in a shop and it was instantly obvious my English was back to how it had been on day one... Sure quantity of exposure helps, but I think something happens when you're immersed in it with no option but to try to understand or be understood. If you have an escape hatch it just isn't the same.
  - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
    Yes, I came to the same conclusion that immersion is key.
- MattPalmer1086 3y ago
  I hardly spent 16 solid hours a day practicing spoken Spanish, i.e. every waking hour. Maybe you are a lot more talkative than I am!

zihotki 3y ago

It's not harder, it just requires different type of fitness. For example, there is a very good and highly effective, although intensive, way to learn to speak Dutch - Delftse Methode. There they focus on building speaking skills by, surprise-surprise, a lot of speaking, training and remembering standard situations. I think, there may be similar methods for other languages.

hrnnnnnn 3y ago

I think it probably depends on how far the writing system is from your own. Imagine you were coming from the English alphabet and learning Japanese. You put in the same number of learning hours, but in one scenario you only learn the written language, and in the other scenario only the spoken. I think you'd probably learn more from the spoken language. Spoken language is higher bandwidth. Tone of voice, melody and rhythm can convey a lot of extra information with the same words. Plus if you're getting the spoken language in real life or from video, there's probably a bunch of extra context that makes it easier to understand. Even better, if you're talking to someone willing to help you learn, they will simplify their speech and start using gestures to help you understand. I can accept that, as in the article, for someone who's spent all their time on written language spoken language will seem harder. I've split my time equally between the two and neither seems "harder" than the other. For what it's worth, my target language also uses the latin alphabet.

trilbyglens 3y ago

Ya not sure about that one tbh. I have lived in the Czech republic for about 15 years, and I speak fluent Czech and but reading is quite different. It's highly individual of course but I managed to become fluent with a 6 month low intensity course, and then about 5 years of just intently listening, asking questions, and grinding it out. That's the only way imo to really learn to speak. Classes and books are shit compared to having monolingual in-laws or being forced to navigate life using the thing. Immersion beats all else, including intense study.