5 ms·

"I have been learning Spanish for over three years now ... However, I really struggle with understanding spoken Spanish." In this person's case, it could be th

"I have been learning Spanish for over three years now ... However, I really struggle with understanding spoken Spanish." In this person's case, it could be that they've spent three years on duolingo instead of practicing listening to native Spanish speakers. I've been learning my target language for two years and have no difficulty understanding it when spoken. Over that time I have listened to hundreds of hours of podcasts, audiobooks and TV shows.

resonious 3y ago
Yeah, in my experience you get out exactly what you put in. If you want to be good at listening to people, then you need to spend your time listening to people. So this seems like a good hint that Duolingo is pretty different from actual people.
awelxtr 3y ago
It doesn't matter their method of study, the question is legit nonetheless. Spoken language is harder to learn.
- MattPalmer1086 3y ago
  Is it? I have studied languages at school and using apps and never really achieved any fluency or understanding of spoken or written language. I lived in Spain for a bit over 3 months when I was a young man and became fluent in spoken Spanish. To the point I started thinking in Spanish but never noticed when that happened. So the method of learning really does seem to matter, at least for me.
  - awelxtr 3y ago
    So you spent 16*90 = ~1440h practicing spoken Spanish. I do believe that if you spent the same amount of time but focused on written Spanish you would acquire a richer vocabulary.
    - magicalhippo 3y ago
      Something happens when you are immersed in it. English is my second language. We started learning it in school when I was 10. My first trip to England, and my first serious use of English, was when I was 16. I went to a summer youth camp of sorts, and there were no one I could communicate with using my primary language. The first day was rough, I had trouble understanding the English dialects and making myself understood. It got gradually better. On the fifth day I had a 30 minute conversation with a native, before they asked where I was from. When I said Norway they looked very surprised. Turned out they thought I was a native too, they just struggled to place my dialect. When it was over my parents picked me up. We all spoke Norwegian as they asked me about my stay. Not even half an hour later I asked for something in a shop and it was instantly obvious my English was back to how it had been on day one... Sure quantity of exposure helps, but I think something happens when you're immersed in it with no option but to try to understand or be understood. If you have an escape hatch it just isn't the same.
      - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
        Yes, I came to the same conclusion that immersion is key.
    - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
      I hardly spent 16 solid hours a day practicing spoken Spanish, i.e. every waking hour. Maybe you are a lot more talkative than I am!
- zihotki 3y ago
  It's not harder, it just requires different type of fitness. For example, there is a very good and highly effective, although intensive, way to learn to speak Dutch - Delftse Methode. There they focus on building speaking skills by, surprise-surprise, a lot of speaking, training and remembering standard situations. I think, there may be similar methods for other languages.
- hrnnnnnn 3y ago
  I think it probably depends on how far the writing system is from your own. Imagine you were coming from the English alphabet and learning Japanese. You put in the same number of learning hours, but in one scenario you only learn the written language, and in the other scenario only the spoken. I think you'd probably learn more from the spoken language. Spoken language is higher bandwidth. Tone of voice, melody and rhythm can convey a lot of extra information with the same words. Plus if you're getting the spoken language in real life or from video, there's probably a bunch of extra context that makes it easier to understand. Even better, if you're talking to someone willing to help you learn, they will simplify their speech and start using gestures to help you understand. I can accept that, as in the article, for someone who's spent all their time on written language spoken language will seem harder. I've split my time equally between the two and neither seems "harder" than the other. For what it's worth, my target language also uses the latin alphabet.
- trilbyglens 3y ago
  Ya not sure about that one tbh. I have lived in the Czech republic for about 15 years, and I speak fluent Czech and but reading is quite different. It's highly individual of course but I managed to become fluent with a 6 month low intensity course, and then about 5 years of just intently listening, asking questions, and grinding it out. That's the only way imo to really learn to speak. Classes and books are shit compared to having monolingual in-laws or being forced to navigate life using the thing. Immersion beats all else, including intense study.
rcarr 3y ago
I’m currently nearing the end of section 5 of the the Spanish duolingo course which is lower B1 level and I watched a Spanish film with only Spanish subtitles on for the first time a few weeks ago. I could definitely hear a lot of the words but I wouldn’t have been able to follow along if I didn’t have the subtitles because my brain just isn’t at the point where it can decode the speech in real time. But if I watched it a few times I think I would have been able to. It’s complicated by the fact that Duolingo Spanish accents are probably closest to Mexican accents whereas Spanish speakers like in the film have a much softer and lispier accent than the Latin American areas. When I watched a Mexican film a while back I was pleasantly surprised by how easy I was finding listening compared to the Spanish tv show I had been watching earlier. I agree that you’ve got to branch out (otherwise what is the point of learning the language) but the Spanish and French courses on Duolingo give you a solid foundation.
- david-gpu 3y ago
  > whereas Spanish speakers like in the film have a much softer and lispier accent A person who pronounces the words "think" and "sink" differently doesn't have a "lisp". The same is true in Spanish with words such as "zaca" and "saca" -- See? They are even written differently! This phenomenon is called "distinción" [0]. The lack of this distinction, which is what we see in most of Latin America is called "seseo". All of this is to say: please stop calling it a lisp. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_Spanish_coronal_fricatives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_Spanis...
  - rcarr 3y ago
    I'm glad you have informed me of what this term is but that being said, anyone who doesn't know that term (which is probably 99.9% of English speakers) is not going to have any idea what I'm talking about. If I say "the main difference in pronunciation between Latin America and Spain is that Latin America have a lack of distinction in their pronunciation which is called seseo" no-one is going to know what I'm talking about whereas if I say "the main difference in pronunciation between Latin America and Spain is that Spanish sounds a bit softer and more lispy" everyone knows what I'm talking about immediately. I also don't consider it particularly offensive, there is no mocking of anyone with a lisp in that sentence.
pjmlp 3y ago
As native speaker, I would say you have been hearing to "high spanish" most of the time. Even I have issues understanding some regions or slang outside of the region I grew up with Spanish (Portuguese/Spanish border on Extremadura). Just like living half of my life in DACH region, I get still get surprised by some German expressions and local dialects. Hearing lots of native stuff helps more than Duoling that is for sure, but it isn't not having any dificulties.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
Those are different skills though. They could be focusing on grammar, written or reading skills. Took me going deep into mmorpgs to get at a decent level of spoken English

resonious 3y ago

Yeah, in my experience you get out exactly what you put in. If you want to be good at listening to people, then you need to spend your time listening to people. So this seems like a good hint that Duolingo is pretty different from actual people.

awelxtr 3y ago

It doesn't matter their method of study, the question is legit nonetheless. Spoken language is harder to learn.

MattPalmer1086 3y ago
Is it? I have studied languages at school and using apps and never really achieved any fluency or understanding of spoken or written language. I lived in Spain for a bit over 3 months when I was a young man and became fluent in spoken Spanish. To the point I started thinking in Spanish but never noticed when that happened. So the method of learning really does seem to matter, at least for me.
- awelxtr 3y ago
  So you spent 16*90 = ~1440h practicing spoken Spanish. I do believe that if you spent the same amount of time but focused on written Spanish you would acquire a richer vocabulary.
  - magicalhippo 3y ago
    Something happens when you are immersed in it. English is my second language. We started learning it in school when I was 10. My first trip to England, and my first serious use of English, was when I was 16. I went to a summer youth camp of sorts, and there were no one I could communicate with using my primary language. The first day was rough, I had trouble understanding the English dialects and making myself understood. It got gradually better. On the fifth day I had a 30 minute conversation with a native, before they asked where I was from. When I said Norway they looked very surprised. Turned out they thought I was a native too, they just struggled to place my dialect. When it was over my parents picked me up. We all spoke Norwegian as they asked me about my stay. Not even half an hour later I asked for something in a shop and it was instantly obvious my English was back to how it had been on day one... Sure quantity of exposure helps, but I think something happens when you're immersed in it with no option but to try to understand or be understood. If you have an escape hatch it just isn't the same.
    - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
      Yes, I came to the same conclusion that immersion is key.
  - MattPalmer1086 3y ago
    I hardly spent 16 solid hours a day practicing spoken Spanish, i.e. every waking hour. Maybe you are a lot more talkative than I am!
zihotki 3y ago
It's not harder, it just requires different type of fitness. For example, there is a very good and highly effective, although intensive, way to learn to speak Dutch - Delftse Methode. There they focus on building speaking skills by, surprise-surprise, a lot of speaking, training and remembering standard situations. I think, there may be similar methods for other languages.
hrnnnnnn 3y ago
I think it probably depends on how far the writing system is from your own. Imagine you were coming from the English alphabet and learning Japanese. You put in the same number of learning hours, but in one scenario you only learn the written language, and in the other scenario only the spoken. I think you'd probably learn more from the spoken language. Spoken language is higher bandwidth. Tone of voice, melody and rhythm can convey a lot of extra information with the same words. Plus if you're getting the spoken language in real life or from video, there's probably a bunch of extra context that makes it easier to understand. Even better, if you're talking to someone willing to help you learn, they will simplify their speech and start using gestures to help you understand. I can accept that, as in the article, for someone who's spent all their time on written language spoken language will seem harder. I've split my time equally between the two and neither seems "harder" than the other. For what it's worth, my target language also uses the latin alphabet.
trilbyglens 3y ago
Ya not sure about that one tbh. I have lived in the Czech republic for about 15 years, and I speak fluent Czech and but reading is quite different. It's highly individual of course but I managed to become fluent with a 6 month low intensity course, and then about 5 years of just intently listening, asking questions, and grinding it out. That's the only way imo to really learn to speak. Classes and books are shit compared to having monolingual in-laws or being forced to navigate life using the thing. Immersion beats all else, including intense study.

rcarr 3y ago

I’m currently nearing the end of section 5 of the the Spanish duolingo course which is lower B1 level and I watched a Spanish film with only Spanish subtitles on for the first time a few weeks ago. I could definitely hear a lot of the words but I wouldn’t have been able to follow along if I didn’t have the subtitles because my brain just isn’t at the point where it can decode the speech in real time. But if I watched it a few times I think I would have been able to. It’s complicated by the fact that Duolingo Spanish accents are probably closest to Mexican accents whereas Spanish speakers like in the film have a much softer and lispier accent than the Latin American areas. When I watched a Mexican film a while back I was pleasantly surprised by how easy I was finding listening compared to the Spanish tv show I had been watching earlier. I agree that you’ve got to branch out (otherwise what is the point of learning the language) but the Spanish and French courses on Duolingo give you a solid foundation.

david-gpu 3y ago
> whereas Spanish speakers like in the film have a much softer and lispier accent A person who pronounces the words "think" and "sink" differently doesn't have a "lisp". The same is true in Spanish with words such as "zaca" and "saca" -- See? They are even written differently! This phenomenon is called "distinción" [0]. The lack of this distinction, which is what we see in most of Latin America is called "seseo". All of this is to say: please stop calling it a lisp. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_Spanish_coronal_fricatives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_Spanis...
- rcarr 3y ago
  I'm glad you have informed me of what this term is but that being said, anyone who doesn't know that term (which is probably 99.9% of English speakers) is not going to have any idea what I'm talking about. If I say "the main difference in pronunciation between Latin America and Spain is that Latin America have a lack of distinction in their pronunciation which is called seseo" no-one is going to know what I'm talking about whereas if I say "the main difference in pronunciation between Latin America and Spain is that Spanish sounds a bit softer and more lispy" everyone knows what I'm talking about immediately. I also don't consider it particularly offensive, there is no mocking of anyone with a lisp in that sentence.

pjmlp 3y ago

As native speaker, I would say you have been hearing to "high spanish" most of the time. Even I have issues understanding some regions or slang outside of the region I grew up with Spanish (Portuguese/Spanish border on Extremadura). Just like living half of my life in DACH region, I get still get surprised by some German expressions and local dialects. Hearing lots of native stuff helps more than Duoling that is for sure, but it isn't not having any dificulties.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago

Those are different skills though. They could be focusing on grammar, written or reading skills. Took me going deep into mmorpgs to get at a decent level of spoken English