5 ms·

Tank days were numbered, and yet they still are heavily used

dumpsterdiver 3y ago
An aside thought: the days of soldiers riding horses into battle is currently considered to be an outdated mode of warfare. It seems quaint to even consider that one day warriors on horseback may again be the prominent warring force on our planet. And yet here we're are packed with nukes, as if we couldn't make it all happen.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  It will be a long while before you have enough horses.
  - KineticLensman 3y ago
    The British army has more horses than operational Challenger tanks
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      So what? So does the Dutch police. But that still doesn't mean you're about to ride your horses in quantity into war. Especially not as long as the opposition has (1) tanks and (2) operational machine guns.
      - KineticLensman 3y ago
        I know. My comment was really a somewhat cynical view of the state of the UK's armoured vehicle capability. Our primary infantry fighting vehicle (Warrior) is about 40 years old now, and its upgrade programme has recently been canned after it proved impossible to fit modern turrets onto the antique hulls. But the cavalry regiments (who use tanks but ride horses ceremonially) would get very upset if the state of their horses was so parlous. They must be one of the few modern organisations that actually has a career path for farriers and other horse-related trades.
        jacquesm 3y ago
        Ah, sorry I totally mis-interpreted your comment.
        rjsw 3y ago
        I don't think the Warrior upgrade programme was cancelled due to it not working, just that the government wanted to save money.
        KineticLensman 3y ago
        Saving money was definitely an excuse as well but my understanding was that the old hulls had all been modded / bodged over the years and didn't therefore present a uniform integration target for new components. A bit like the failed programme to upgrade the engines in the Nimrod aircraft, where it eventually transpired that the different planes were essentially unique in terms of dimensions and design (thus requiring multiple (expensive) solutions). [Edit] Not saying that engineering difficulty was the only factor behind these cancellations, but it clearly was a significant cost driver.
- ethbr0 3y ago
  Special forces notoriously rode horses early in the invasion of Afghanistan. Delivering force and logistics to the desired location, in a way you can support, is the end goal. In most of the industrialized world, there are better options. But there's a fair bit of the planet where animal transport is still optimal: hard to beat the fuel requirements. https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/10/18/how-the-horse-soldiers-helped-liberate-afghanistan-from-the-taliban-18-years-ago/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/10/18/...
  - martin8412 3y ago
    An elite unit of the Danish military operating in the frozen wasteland of Northeastern Greenland travel by dog sled and use bolt action rifles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius_Dog_Sled_Patrol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius_Dog_Sled_Patrol
hajile 3y ago
Tanks will have a new lease on life when we get a new design with more power (electricity) and a good point defense system (most likely laser based). If we remove drones and ATGMs from the equation, the only viable threats go back to being mines, artillery, and APFSDS tank rounds.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  > laser point defense And then ATGMs get ablative nosecones. Also if direct energy weapons could neutralize the threat of missiles, then planes would also benefit from this. Planes would be better at tankbusting if MANPADS could be neutralized.

An aside thought: the days of soldiers riding horses into battle is currently considered to be an outdated mode of warfare. It seems quaint to even consider that one day warriors on horseback may again be the prominent warring force on our planet. And yet here we're are packed with nukes, as if we couldn't make it all happen.

jacquesm 3y ago
It will be a long while before you have enough horses.
- KineticLensman 3y ago
  The British army has more horses than operational Challenger tanks
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    So what? So does the Dutch police. But that still doesn't mean you're about to ride your horses in quantity into war. Especially not as long as the opposition has (1) tanks and (2) operational machine guns.
    - KineticLensman 3y ago
      I know. My comment was really a somewhat cynical view of the state of the UK's armoured vehicle capability. Our primary infantry fighting vehicle (Warrior) is about 40 years old now, and its upgrade programme has recently been canned after it proved impossible to fit modern turrets onto the antique hulls. But the cavalry regiments (who use tanks but ride horses ceremonially) would get very upset if the state of their horses was so parlous. They must be one of the few modern organisations that actually has a career path for farriers and other horse-related trades.
      - jacquesm 3y ago
        Ah, sorry I totally mis-interpreted your comment.
      - rjsw 3y ago
        I don't think the Warrior upgrade programme was cancelled due to it not working, just that the government wanted to save money.
        KineticLensman 3y ago
        Saving money was definitely an excuse as well but my understanding was that the old hulls had all been modded / bodged over the years and didn't therefore present a uniform integration target for new components. A bit like the failed programme to upgrade the engines in the Nimrod aircraft, where it eventually transpired that the different planes were essentially unique in terms of dimensions and design (thus requiring multiple (expensive) solutions). [Edit] Not saying that engineering difficulty was the only factor behind these cancellations, but it clearly was a significant cost driver.
ethbr0 3y ago
Special forces notoriously rode horses early in the invasion of Afghanistan. Delivering force and logistics to the desired location, in a way you can support, is the end goal. In most of the industrialized world, there are better options. But there's a fair bit of the planet where animal transport is still optimal: hard to beat the fuel requirements. https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/10/18/how-the-horse-soldiers-helped-liberate-afghanistan-from-the-taliban-18-years-ago/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2019/10/18/...
- martin8412 3y ago
  An elite unit of the Danish military operating in the frozen wasteland of Northeastern Greenland travel by dog sled and use bolt action rifles. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius_Dog_Sled_Patrol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius_Dog_Sled_Patrol

hajile 3y ago

Tanks will have a new lease on life when we get a new design with more power (electricity) and a good point defense system (most likely laser based). If we remove drones and ATGMs from the equation, the only viable threats go back to being mines, artillery, and APFSDS tank rounds.

mcpackieh 3y ago
> laser point defense And then ATGMs get ablative nosecones. Also if direct energy weapons could neutralize the threat of missiles, then planes would also benefit from this. Planes would be better at tankbusting if MANPADS could be neutralized.