3 ms·

In some ways the talc controversy does seem similar to the silicone breast implant controversy in the 1990’s. An overview is at https://www.healthaffairs.org/

In some ways the talc controversy does seem similar to the silicone breast implant controversy in the 1990’s. An overview is at https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.15.4.206 https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.15.4.206

jey 3y ago
Isn't the mechanism for the talc -> {ovarian cancer, mesothelioma} connection much clearer and stronger though? That talc co-occurs with asbestos, which is known to be highly carcinogenic and to cause the types of cancers being encountered here. The asbestos fibers were also (allegedly) found in laboratory analysis of samples of the commercial talc powder product.
- dylan604 3y ago
  Clearly, you’re one of those that feel like facts matter. This feels like one of those battles to be fought in the court of public opinion and not a court of law. In that type of fight, suppressing facts while speaking your narrative as loudly as possible is a winning move
- scotty79 3y ago
  > The asbestos fibers were also (allegedly) found in laboratory analysis of samples of the commercial talc powder product. Were they found in ovarian cancers? What's the clear link?
  - beowulfey 3y ago
    This is transitive risk. Asbestos is clearly linked to cancer > asbestos was found in talc and known to form with talc naturally > risk of using talc that isn’t pure. The problem is whether talc is pure. At that point it becomes a question of how much you trust J&J to verify that. My guess is that different mined sources varied in asbestos composition and there likely was some contamination that went undetected. But who knows.
- NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
  >Isn't the mechanism for the talc -> {ovarian cancer, mesothelioma} connection much clearer and stronger though? No; not at all. It's extremely dubious indeed, in fact.
  - jey 3y ago
    You’re just creating FUD. Can you instead be more specific?
rcme 3y ago
That was published in 1996. Textured breast implants are associated with increased rates of Breast Implant-Associated Anaplastic Large Cell Lymphoma (BIA-ALCL) [0]. Squamous cell carcinoma can also form in the scar tissue of many types of implants [1]. 0: https://www.plasticsurgery.org/patient-safety/breast-implant-safety/bia-alcl-summary https://www.plasticsurgery.org/patient-safety/breast-implant... 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/08/health/breast-implants-cancer.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/08/health/breast-implants-ca...
ciabattabread 3y ago
This is the key part of that article that hammered home to the point to me: > However, the benefit of implants to women's subjective well-being is less easily quantified. As Angell astutely points out, the FDA assumed that the benefits of breast implants were minimal—especially in women who desired implants for aesthetic reasons—and therefore demanded that implant manufacturers demonstrate virtually absolute safety.

jey 3y ago

Isn't the mechanism for the talc -> {ovarian cancer, mesothelioma} connection much clearer and stronger though? That talc co-occurs with asbestos, which is known to be highly carcinogenic and to cause the types of cancers being encountered here. The asbestos fibers were also (allegedly) found in laboratory analysis of samples of the commercial talc powder product.

dylan604 3y ago
Clearly, you’re one of those that feel like facts matter. This feels like one of those battles to be fought in the court of public opinion and not a court of law. In that type of fight, suppressing facts while speaking your narrative as loudly as possible is a winning move
scotty79 3y ago
> The asbestos fibers were also (allegedly) found in laboratory analysis of samples of the commercial talc powder product. Were they found in ovarian cancers? What's the clear link?
- beowulfey 3y ago
  This is transitive risk. Asbestos is clearly linked to cancer > asbestos was found in talc and known to form with talc naturally > risk of using talc that isn’t pure. The problem is whether talc is pure. At that point it becomes a question of how much you trust J&J to verify that. My guess is that different mined sources varied in asbestos composition and there likely was some contamination that went undetected. But who knows.
NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
>Isn't the mechanism for the talc -> {ovarian cancer, mesothelioma} connection much clearer and stronger though? No; not at all. It's extremely dubious indeed, in fact.
- jey 3y ago
  You’re just creating FUD. Can you instead be more specific?

rcme 3y ago

That was published in 1996. Textured breast implants are associated with increased rates of Breast Implant-Associated Anaplastic Large Cell Lymphoma (BIA-ALCL) [0]. Squamous cell carcinoma can also form in the scar tissue of many types of implants [1]. 0: https://www.plasticsurgery.org/patient-safety/breast-implant-safety/bia-alcl-summary https://www.plasticsurgery.org/patient-safety/breast-implant... 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/08/health/breast-implants-cancer.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/08/health/breast-implants-ca...

ciabattabread 3y ago

This is the key part of that article that hammered home to the point to me: > However, the benefit of implants to women's subjective well-being is less easily quantified. As Angell astutely points out, the FDA assumed that the benefits of breast implants were minimal—especially in women who desired implants for aesthetic reasons—and therefore demanded that implant manufacturers demonstrate virtually absolute safety.