3 ms·

What strikes me as narcissistic is the presumption that you know what is narcissistic. It’s possible that the reasons for their presence is simply a mystery tha

What strikes me as narcissistic is the presumption that you know what is narcissistic. It’s possible that the reasons for their presence is simply a mystery that we have not figured out yet.

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
We're so full of awesome mysteries, they can't help themselves!
- revscat 3y ago
  So you believe that humanity’s current knowledge is complete enough that an advanced civilization — say 100,000 years ahead of us — would behave in ways that are wholly understandable to us, is that correct? Or are you going to offer up more sarcasm and/or ridicule? That in an of itself is problematic, by the way. The refusal to treat this subject honestly and in good faith by so many is deeply unscientific.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
    [dead]
- pmarreck 3y ago
  If you're smart enough to think you have something to say about this, you're also smart enough to know that "appeal to ridicule" is fallacious. What if we're the new kid on the interstellar space-travel block? What if we have more water than any of them have ever seen on one planet in their lives, and they want to start trading? What if one of their species is dying out and needs genetic input from us to make longer-lasting hybrids (this was one claim from all the butt-probing abduction reports)? What if our music (if it turns out that music is a universally appreciable phenomenon by any intelligent species with sound detection/"ears") is actually the most popular in the universe right now and they actually owe us a tremendous amount of galactic currency from "borrowing" our recordings, and just want to settle up? What if we are actually headed towards a worse climate catastrophe than we think, and they are desperate to warn us? What if they feel an intellectual kinship with us but are frustrated by our lack of accepting them, but can't land on the White House lawn without risking incurring an immediate armed counterattack because (as it may turn out), "being deeply initially afraid of aliens" (xenophobia) is a fundamental fact of the universe and the only way to acclimatize us is AVOIDING leaving hard physical evidence behind (which would be too shocking/abrupt a worldview shift) and instead doing systematic desensitization of this xenophobia by using an increasingly frequent pattern of "indirect evidence" (which by the way, looks a heck of a lot like what's actually going on)? (by the way, this is a real thing we're already aware of in human psychology- systematic desensitization is the only known way to cure phobias) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systematic_desensitization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systematic_desensitization The point is, you have no fucking idea what the reason(s) might be, dude. Or how interesting we'd be to others, or why.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
    > What if we're the new kid on the interstellar space-travel block? An appealing story. Like, you could write a science fiction novel or show or something. But such narratives don't really mean much except for their appeal to evolved monkeys. So if we live in a galaxy full of rubber-forehead aliens, that works just fine. They're keeping secret so as to not violate the prime directive! There's no way to game this. Humans aren't interesting in any way, shape, or form. Dreaming up ways that I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong, it just means you're dreaming up new stories. If I'm wrong, then I get to maybe read something interesting in a few years. If you're wrong, then you're emotionally devastated because your super-narcissism just isn't being satisfied. > and they want to start trading? Trading what? Are our atoms better than their atoms? The universe doesn't work like that. There's nothing to trade. It costs thousands of dollars to lift a kilo to orbit... what do you think a kilo of Earth's finest Colombian coffee costs to send 15 light years away? And does it even taste the same after making the journey? All those weird volatiles and organic molecules do weird things after decades of storage, no matter how cold. After getting zapped with radiation on the trip. If they wanted to trade data, maybe... but why come? Long distance calls are cheaper than the Intergalactic Uber Data thing. And it's a big maybe. None of our data is interesting, though maybe they won't know that until they've seen it I guess. Again, long distance not delivery. > What if we are actually headed towards a worse climate catastrophe than we think, and they are desperate to warn us? I'd expect more of a 4chan "lulz" response. But either way, that's a little expensive. When's the last time you saw someone broken down at the side of the road and spent $90 trillion to help them? > What if they feel an intellectual kinship with us Evolutionary pressures caused their minds to develop in such a way that they feel intellectual kinships with gibbering alien horrors they've never met before, from the other side of the universe? > and the only way to acclimatize us is AVOIDING leaving I've seen better plots in porn videos. > The point is, you have no fucking idea I do have a fucking idea. Quite a few of them. All you have is a want though. You want this to be true.
    - pmarreck 3y ago
      > An appealing story. Like, you could write a science fiction novel or show or something. Surely you have noticed how much established science fiction has become science fact, no? The whole point of science fiction is to future-speculate. I don't think "similarity to science fiction" is a counterargument to anything. Rockets to space existed in science fiction long before they were reality, etc. > Humans aren't interesting in any way, shape, or form LOL. Says you? Are you the authority on how interesting 8 billion people are, or not? I have to give you credit for being an incredibly stubborn nihilist, though, but I'm afraid to declare that WE ARE interesting. Not just to us, but to any intelligence. Quod grātīs asseritur, grātīs negātur. > it just means you're dreaming up new stories That's just the thing, though. So are you. It's just that your stories are pessimism, and mine are optimism. > If you're wrong, then you're emotionally devastated because your super-narcissism just isn't being satisfied Nope. Hilarious take, though. I have no attachment to any outcome. > Trading what? Are our atoms better than their atoms? Perhaps digital art? Regarding atoms, doesn't it expend a tremendous amount of energy to synthesize water from 2 hydrogens and an oxygen? And wouldn't it also require a tremendous amount of energy to separate them again? > It costs thousands of dollars to lift a kilo to orbit One, money makes no sense in this context. Two, I'm sure that both our future tech, and whatever alien tech might exist, would drastically lower the cost of that. Three, we're potentially talking about very physical and possibly very large ships (featureless, soundless, and with incredible performance characteristics) already routinely moving themselves in and out of our orbit- I doubt a few thousand gallons of water would be a significant impediment. > None of our data is interesting Art. Art may be interesting. Music and art and perhaps poetry/literature. Beyond that, you're correct. > When's the last time you saw someone broken down at the side of the road and spent $90 trillion to help them? One, again, money is irrelevant here. Two, you have a point, but perhaps they are evolved empathetic intelligences; we're SUPPOSED to try to help people stuck on the side of the road. The fact that hardly anyone does so, is on US. What if it's not the norm, and we're just the assholes? > Evolutionary pressures caused their minds to develop in such a way that they feel intellectual kinships with gibbering alien horrors they've never met before, from the other side of the universe? LOL. Fair enough. But come on, it would be fascinating for us, at least; and again, you seem to think that we would harbor zero interest for anyone else, but I've noticed something about development: Every 2 steps forward lead to 1 step back (think: no one will ever not stare at a phone anymore while waiting for anything), and maybe we have a unique enough situation (which will "go away" in due time) to be interesting to others. Put it this way, do you not think it would be interesting to travel back 200 years in time and have dinner with a family? Or to simply have dinner with a family in another country, even (or especially) one much less technologically-developed? > I've seen better plots in porn videos. Nevertheless, having extensively considered other ways of going about this, it makes the most sense to me. > You want this to be true. You seem to want it not to be, though? I had an old German relative who had apparently never traveled outside rural Bavaria once ask me, "can you see the moon from the United States?" This conversation smacks of that. You: "WHY would you be so narcissistic as to PRESUME that the MOON of all things could be visible from THERE?!?!" lol. (The "planet" in this case, of course, is "conscious intellect.")

What strikes me as narcissistic is the presumption that you know what is narcissistic. It’s possible that the reasons for their presence is simply a mystery that we have not figured out yet.

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago

We're so full of awesome mysteries, they can't help themselves!

revscat 3y ago
So you believe that humanity’s current knowledge is complete enough that an advanced civilization — say 100,000 years ahead of us — would behave in ways that are wholly understandable to us, is that correct? Or are you going to offer up more sarcasm and/or ridicule? That in an of itself is problematic, by the way. The refusal to treat this subject honestly and in good faith by so many is deeply unscientific.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  [dead]
pmarreck 3y ago
If you're smart enough to think you have something to say about this, you're also smart enough to know that "appeal to ridicule" is fallacious. What if we're the new kid on the interstellar space-travel block? What if we have more water than any of them have ever seen on one planet in their lives, and they want to start trading? What if one of their species is dying out and needs genetic input from us to make longer-lasting hybrids (this was one claim from all the butt-probing abduction reports)? What if our music (if it turns out that music is a universally appreciable phenomenon by any intelligent species with sound detection/"ears") is actually the most popular in the universe right now and they actually owe us a tremendous amount of galactic currency from "borrowing" our recordings, and just want to settle up? What if we are actually headed towards a worse climate catastrophe than we think, and they are desperate to warn us? What if they feel an intellectual kinship with us but are frustrated by our lack of accepting them, but can't land on the White House lawn without risking incurring an immediate armed counterattack because (as it may turn out), "being deeply initially afraid of aliens" (xenophobia) is a fundamental fact of the universe and the only way to acclimatize us is AVOIDING leaving hard physical evidence behind (which would be too shocking/abrupt a worldview shift) and instead doing systematic desensitization of this xenophobia by using an increasingly frequent pattern of "indirect evidence" (which by the way, looks a heck of a lot like what's actually going on)? (by the way, this is a real thing we're already aware of in human psychology- systematic desensitization is the only known way to cure phobias) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systematic_desensitization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systematic_desensitization The point is, you have no fucking idea what the reason(s) might be, dude. Or how interesting we'd be to others, or why.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  > What if we're the new kid on the interstellar space-travel block? An appealing story. Like, you could write a science fiction novel or show or something. But such narratives don't really mean much except for their appeal to evolved monkeys. So if we live in a galaxy full of rubber-forehead aliens, that works just fine. They're keeping secret so as to not violate the prime directive! There's no way to game this. Humans aren't interesting in any way, shape, or form. Dreaming up ways that I'm wrong doesn't make me wrong, it just means you're dreaming up new stories. If I'm wrong, then I get to maybe read something interesting in a few years. If you're wrong, then you're emotionally devastated because your super-narcissism just isn't being satisfied. > and they want to start trading? Trading what? Are our atoms better than their atoms? The universe doesn't work like that. There's nothing to trade. It costs thousands of dollars to lift a kilo to orbit... what do you think a kilo of Earth's finest Colombian coffee costs to send 15 light years away? And does it even taste the same after making the journey? All those weird volatiles and organic molecules do weird things after decades of storage, no matter how cold. After getting zapped with radiation on the trip. If they wanted to trade data, maybe... but why come? Long distance calls are cheaper than the Intergalactic Uber Data thing. And it's a big maybe. None of our data is interesting, though maybe they won't know that until they've seen it I guess. Again, long distance not delivery. > What if we are actually headed towards a worse climate catastrophe than we think, and they are desperate to warn us? I'd expect more of a 4chan "lulz" response. But either way, that's a little expensive. When's the last time you saw someone broken down at the side of the road and spent $90 trillion to help them? > What if they feel an intellectual kinship with us Evolutionary pressures caused their minds to develop in such a way that they feel intellectual kinships with gibbering alien horrors they've never met before, from the other side of the universe? > and the only way to acclimatize us is AVOIDING leaving I've seen better plots in porn videos. > The point is, you have no fucking idea I do have a fucking idea. Quite a few of them. All you have is a want though. You want this to be true.
  - pmarreck 3y ago
    > An appealing story. Like, you could write a science fiction novel or show or something. Surely you have noticed how much established science fiction has become science fact, no? The whole point of science fiction is to future-speculate. I don't think "similarity to science fiction" is a counterargument to anything. Rockets to space existed in science fiction long before they were reality, etc. > Humans aren't interesting in any way, shape, or form LOL. Says you? Are you the authority on how interesting 8 billion people are, or not? I have to give you credit for being an incredibly stubborn nihilist, though, but I'm afraid to declare that WE ARE interesting. Not just to us, but to any intelligence. Quod grātīs asseritur, grātīs negātur. > it just means you're dreaming up new stories That's just the thing, though. So are you. It's just that your stories are pessimism, and mine are optimism. > If you're wrong, then you're emotionally devastated because your super-narcissism just isn't being satisfied Nope. Hilarious take, though. I have no attachment to any outcome. > Trading what? Are our atoms better than their atoms? Perhaps digital art? Regarding atoms, doesn't it expend a tremendous amount of energy to synthesize water from 2 hydrogens and an oxygen? And wouldn't it also require a tremendous amount of energy to separate them again? > It costs thousands of dollars to lift a kilo to orbit One, money makes no sense in this context. Two, I'm sure that both our future tech, and whatever alien tech might exist, would drastically lower the cost of that. Three, we're potentially talking about very physical and possibly very large ships (featureless, soundless, and with incredible performance characteristics) already routinely moving themselves in and out of our orbit- I doubt a few thousand gallons of water would be a significant impediment. > None of our data is interesting Art. Art may be interesting. Music and art and perhaps poetry/literature. Beyond that, you're correct. > When's the last time you saw someone broken down at the side of the road and spent $90 trillion to help them? One, again, money is irrelevant here. Two, you have a point, but perhaps they are evolved empathetic intelligences; we're SUPPOSED to try to help people stuck on the side of the road. The fact that hardly anyone does so, is on US. What if it's not the norm, and we're just the assholes? > Evolutionary pressures caused their minds to develop in such a way that they feel intellectual kinships with gibbering alien horrors they've never met before, from the other side of the universe? LOL. Fair enough. But come on, it would be fascinating for us, at least; and again, you seem to think that we would harbor zero interest for anyone else, but I've noticed something about development: Every 2 steps forward lead to 1 step back (think: no one will ever not stare at a phone anymore while waiting for anything), and maybe we have a unique enough situation (which will "go away" in due time) to be interesting to others. Put it this way, do you not think it would be interesting to travel back 200 years in time and have dinner with a family? Or to simply have dinner with a family in another country, even (or especially) one much less technologically-developed? > I've seen better plots in porn videos. Nevertheless, having extensively considered other ways of going about this, it makes the most sense to me. > You want this to be true. You seem to want it not to be, though? I had an old German relative who had apparently never traveled outside rural Bavaria once ask me, "can you see the moon from the United States?" This conversation smacks of that. You: "WHY would you be so narcissistic as to PRESUME that the MOON of all things could be visible from THERE?!?!" lol. (The "planet" in this case, of course, is "conscious intellect.")