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World of Warcraft was designed from the beginning with casual in mind. You cannot lose anything and player A is better than B only because A spent more time on

World of Warcraft was designed from the beginning with casual in mind. You cannot lose anything and player A is better than B only because A spent more time on the game than B. They introduced bound items and made crafting more of a time-sink than a player-based economy. Years of WoW market dominance has warped the meaning of 'hardcore' somewhat though. I still wouldn't make it a function of how much time is spent on something; it would make Farmville full of 'hardcore gamers'. PS. The above statements are to be taken in context of MMOs with a player-based economy, such as EVE.

sek 15y ago
You never played Vanilla. Raids were almost impossible for over 90% of the players in the beginning. There are professional WoW players today, who are sponsored. It was designed for hardcore and casual players. With the Addons it got more and more casual friendly. Soulbound items did exactly the opposite, materials were still traded and when it was crafted there was no resell value. That meant the demand stayed high. The economy was also influenced trough expensive mounts and auction taxes. It may be not as complex as EVE, but big because everyone participated in it.
- JanezStupar 15y ago
  I have and I also played UO and my friends played EQ. Comparing to those two tittles WOW is super tame and casual. Edit: I played EVE too and it is pretty much up there with UO in terms of there being a real possibility of getting a heart attack by playing the game.
  - patio11 15y ago
    It was the difference between working at Foxconn and working for a Japanese megacorp: sure, there's a casual option among the two, but neither is exactly stress-free. (Bona fides: participated in 3 of the above 4 soulsucking activities.)
ttt_ 15y ago
>> World of Warcraft was designed from the beginning with casual in mind. How are 5h-8h raids designed with casual in mind? Specially considering that any item you just happen to pick-up casually (as in not in raids) is plain garbage next to those and it matters a whole lot in a pvp-oriented game? I disagree completely. WoW is designed from the ground up for addiction.
- yvdriess 15y ago
  Because the only thing you risk doing those bullshit molten core raids was time; your own and that of your fellow party members. The whole point I was trying to make is that focusing on being a time sink and addicting is not what makes a game 'hardcore'.
  - saraid216 15y ago
    Actually, one of the original distinctions between "casual" and "hardcore" was the amount of time put in. (See Jessica Mulligan's "Developing Online Games" from 2003.)

sek 15y ago

You never played Vanilla. Raids were almost impossible for over 90% of the players in the beginning. There are professional WoW players today, who are sponsored. It was designed for hardcore and casual players. With the Addons it got more and more casual friendly. Soulbound items did exactly the opposite, materials were still traded and when it was crafted there was no resell value. That meant the demand stayed high. The economy was also influenced trough expensive mounts and auction taxes. It may be not as complex as EVE, but big because everyone participated in it.

JanezStupar 15y ago
I have and I also played UO and my friends played EQ. Comparing to those two tittles WOW is super tame and casual. Edit: I played EVE too and it is pretty much up there with UO in terms of there being a real possibility of getting a heart attack by playing the game.
- patio11 15y ago
  It was the difference between working at Foxconn and working for a Japanese megacorp: sure, there's a casual option among the two, but neither is exactly stress-free. (Bona fides: participated in 3 of the above 4 soulsucking activities.)

ttt_ 15y ago

>> World of Warcraft was designed from the beginning with casual in mind. How are 5h-8h raids designed with casual in mind? Specially considering that any item you just happen to pick-up casually (as in not in raids) is plain garbage next to those and it matters a whole lot in a pvp-oriented game? I disagree completely. WoW is designed from the ground up for addiction.

yvdriess 15y ago
Because the only thing you risk doing those bullshit molten core raids was time; your own and that of your fellow party members. The whole point I was trying to make is that focusing on being a time sink and addicting is not what makes a game 'hardcore'.
- saraid216 15y ago
  Actually, one of the original distinctions between "casual" and "hardcore" was the amount of time put in. (See Jessica Mulligan's "Developing Online Games" from 2003.)