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Lithium batteries will be dead within a decade. Solar panels within 3. Think about that the next time you cheer on a huge solar installation as a win for the pl

Lithium batteries will be dead within a decade. Solar panels within 3. Think about that the next time you cheer on a huge solar installation as a win for the planet.

selimthegrim 3y ago
Schottky solar cells are pretty simple to couple with thermoelectrics.
jacquesm 3y ago
Solar panels will work a lot longer than 3[edit: 0] years. I've got a batch here of 16 of them that are from the early 00's and that are still producing ~80% of their rated power. They're not even particularly good cells. Lithium batteries will indeed likely not last for a decade but that has nothing to do with solar installations, though you could combine them (but you'd have a choice of chemistries and for stationary installations where weight and size are not usually the limiting factors you can do better than Lithium).
- ryanianian 3y ago
  Parent comment said solar panels would last 3 decades, not 3 years.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Ah yes. But still: solar panels will just degrade, they will work until they are physically damaged. People replace them because they want more power for a given surface area, usually not because the panels no longer work though there were some pretty bad batches from certain manufacturers where the backing delaminates or where there is water ingestion. Those are no longer safe. But well made panels should last a long, long time. They are warrantied for 30 years, I'd expect them to last a multiple of that unless they get impact damage.
- chuchana 3y ago
  I assume they meant three decades.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Yes, indeed they did, see other comment.
addisonl 3y ago
Solar towers have lifespans longer than our own https://clearspanenergy.com/renewable-energy/solar-tower/#:~:text=They%20have%20a%20warranted%20lifespan,Tower%20will%20last%20100%2B%20years https://clearspanenergy.com/renewable-energy/solar-tower/#:~....
callalex 3y ago
As opposed to fossil fuel infrastructure? I am not seeing your point.
Gordonjcp 3y ago
I'm currently using equipment that's working perfectly well running on NiCads and solar panels that are only a little younger than I am. I expect in another 50 years they'll be a bit on the tired side, but it won't be my problem.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  It won't be your problem but I'd expect whoever inherits it from you to still be able to get between 20 and 30% or so of the original capacity out of it. Which is likely ample to run simple stuff, assuming the simple stuff itself survives that long.
nullc 3y ago
All the flashlights at my home are powered by ~14 year old 18650 cells scavenged from old lenovo battery packs (I think mostly x61 batteries). Usually the case is that one cell in a 'dead' battery has far lower capacity, and might only run a flashlight for 20 minutes (which is still useful, though I dispose of those). The other cells are comparable to new ones in capacity (maybe they're 90% or whatever of their original). We often have a distorted idea of lifetimes and reliability because absent real scarcity we're overly prone to discarding things which can be fixed (e.g. using 5 bad laptop batteries to make four good ones) or are still usable. If you have no other source of light at night a flashlight you can only use for 20 minutes is still a life changing transformative device. One could imagine searching for battery technology with much longer lifetimes. But I think you'd be better off with the best batteries you can find out of thousands of lithium cells ambient around you than just a few 'super batteries', esp if you're only talking about your lifetime or the lifetime of your children.

Lithium batteries will be dead within a decade. Solar panels within 3. Think about that the next time you cheer on a huge solar installation as a win for the planet.

selimthegrim 3y ago

Schottky solar cells are pretty simple to couple with thermoelectrics.

jacquesm 3y ago

Solar panels will work a lot longer than 3[edit: 0] years. I've got a batch here of 16 of them that are from the early 00's and that are still producing ~80% of their rated power. They're not even particularly good cells. Lithium batteries will indeed likely not last for a decade but that has nothing to do with solar installations, though you could combine them (but you'd have a choice of chemistries and for stationary installations where weight and size are not usually the limiting factors you can do better than Lithium).

ryanianian 3y ago
Parent comment said solar panels would last 3 decades, not 3 years.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Ah yes. But still: solar panels will just degrade, they will work until they are physically damaged. People replace them because they want more power for a given surface area, usually not because the panels no longer work though there were some pretty bad batches from certain manufacturers where the backing delaminates or where there is water ingestion. Those are no longer safe. But well made panels should last a long, long time. They are warrantied for 30 years, I'd expect them to last a multiple of that unless they get impact damage.
chuchana 3y ago
I assume they meant three decades.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Yes, indeed they did, see other comment.

addisonl 3y ago

Solar towers have lifespans longer than our own https://clearspanenergy.com/renewable-energy/solar-tower/#:~:text=They%20have%20a%20warranted%20lifespan,Tower%20will%20last%20100%2B%20years https://clearspanenergy.com/renewable-energy/solar-tower/#:~....

callalex 3y ago

As opposed to fossil fuel infrastructure? I am not seeing your point.

Gordonjcp 3y ago

I'm currently using equipment that's working perfectly well running on NiCads and solar panels that are only a little younger than I am. I expect in another 50 years they'll be a bit on the tired side, but it won't be my problem.

jacquesm 3y ago
It won't be your problem but I'd expect whoever inherits it from you to still be able to get between 20 and 30% or so of the original capacity out of it. Which is likely ample to run simple stuff, assuming the simple stuff itself survives that long.

nullc 3y ago

All the flashlights at my home are powered by ~14 year old 18650 cells scavenged from old lenovo battery packs (I think mostly x61 batteries). Usually the case is that one cell in a 'dead' battery has far lower capacity, and might only run a flashlight for 20 minutes (which is still useful, though I dispose of those). The other cells are comparable to new ones in capacity (maybe they're 90% or whatever of their original). We often have a distorted idea of lifetimes and reliability because absent real scarcity we're overly prone to discarding things which can be fixed (e.g. using 5 bad laptop batteries to make four good ones) or are still usable. If you have no other source of light at night a flashlight you can only use for 20 minutes is still a life changing transformative device. One could imagine searching for battery technology with much longer lifetimes. But I think you'd be better off with the best batteries you can find out of thousands of lithium cells ambient around you than just a few 'super batteries', esp if you're only talking about your lifetime or the lifetime of your children.