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Oh, it's PHP - neat. Personally I think Statamic is the entry to beat for flat-file CMSes in the PHP space. This project is the Symfony flavor I suppose (vs Sta

Oh, it's PHP - neat. Personally I think Statamic is the entry to beat for flat-file CMSes in the PHP space. This project is the Symfony flavor I suppose (vs Statamic being based on Laravel).

manuelmoreale 3y ago
Personally think https://getkirby.com https://getkirby.com is the entry to beat but I guess it’s just because I’m used to it and it works incredibly well for my use case.
- chrisallick 3y ago
  came here to say this. i went all over looking for a replacement... just pay for it. its exactly what you want. i built https://2020isasong.com/ https://2020isasong.com/ on kirby and tries to rebuild with grav and ended up deciding kirby was just too good.
  - manuelmoreale 3y ago
    Agree and there’s something nice in using a paid product with a simple and straightforward license, no silly subscriptions and from a team that genuinely cares about the product. Plus the product itself is incredibly good and it’s getting better and better over time.
- sdesol 3y ago
  The active community for kirby is bigger than grav's as the following shows: https://devboard.gitsense.com/getkirby/kirby https://devboard.gitsense.com/getkirby/kirby https://devboard.gitsense.com/getgrav/grav https://devboard.gitsense.com/getgrav/grav Historically speaking, grav is more popular as it had over 2000 contributors, compared to kirby which is about 500. Full Disclosure: This is my tool
  - manuelmoreale 3y ago
    It’s two different projects run in two different ways. I don’t think that looking at git is useful or insightful in this case.
    - sdesol 3y ago
      It is not just git though. It's looking at no code participation as well.
      - manuelmoreale 3y ago
        Yes but the two projects are run differently. Most of discussions around Kirby happen on the official discord server or on the official forum. So looking at git activity is not really all that useful.
        sdesol 3y ago
        Yes you are right about not having the complete picture, as far as no code activity goes.
        manuelmoreale 3y ago
        But even from a code perspective I'm not sure comparing repos is always all that useful. I'm not sure about Grav but on the Kirby side, if I'm not mistaken, the current official repo started with the v3 and the two previous versions were archived. So you're only comparing the code activity from ~2019 onwards but Kirby has been around for more than 10 years at this point.
        sdesol 3y ago
        Thanks for the additional info. If we are were to just look at the repo stats, Kirby is a lot more active than Grav right now. Do you happen to know what the archived repos were and if they are public? If you look at https://devboard.gitsense.com/getkirby https://devboard.gitsense.com/getkirby you can see the insights for all the kirby org repos I do want to make it clear that Kirby is a very healthy project, if anybody is misinterpreting the data.
- fbnlsr 3y ago
  I've had the pleasure to build a small website with Kirby and it was such a joy to use as a developer. The only problem I faced was with my client as he was used to Wordpress and making the transition to Kirby was a bit rough for him.
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    Can you unpack this a bit? What was rough? How much of that was the client not being able to change? I'm lightly looking into alternatives to WordPress. Obviously CraftCMS come up, but being a paid product - nothing work with that per se - does limit its appeal for some projects / client. So maybe there's a place for Kirby?
    - manuelmoreale 3y ago
      Keep in mind that Kirby is also a paid product
      - chiefalchemist 3y ago
        Oh? Thx. I missed that.
- miragecraft 3y ago
  Another vote for Kirby and I’ve tried them all.
arnorhs 3y ago
Wait, isn't laravel based on/using a bunch of libraries from symfony? Or did it just use to be that way and it has changed?
- budrickfox 3y ago
  Laravel the framework does use a bunch of Symfony libraries under the hood, but is still a very different framework. Symfony’s library offerings end up everywhere, with good reason. They’re used in but not strongly tied to the Symfony framework.
k4runa 3y ago
Statamic is great for simple sites but for larger or multilingual sites it has lots of problems. I have a 5000+ page website that the static site generator takes 3 hours to build and there's been no improvement since v3 launched. You can use their "Static Caching" as an alternative to static generating but for my project requirements I need a purely static site. I'm busy doing a huge rewrite and switching to using Statamic in headless mode with NextJS in the front... which takes just a couple of minutes to generate the static sites instead. I'm also still waiting for RTL support for languages in the CMS and multi-site permissions which has probably been on the roadmap for over a year but keeps getting delayed. I've submitted many ideas and bug reports on how to improve the multilingual experience but I don't think it's a priority for the team.
- rtpg 3y ago
  Serious: you should run a profiler on the generation step (or like... for a minute of it and the CTRL-C out). Often times degenerate cases like this exist but are more or less invisible to maintainers, and just saying "the generator takes forever" is not nearly as actionable as "here's the first 60 seconds of the generation process, does anything look weird?"
- WA 3y ago
  A very big German newspaper (https://www.spiegel.de/ https://www.spiegel.de/) runs on Statamic and they probably have an order of magnitude more pages. But not sure what kind of improvements/custom implementations they've done.
  - tethys 3y ago
    This Statamic blog post has (at least some) insights: https://statamic.com/blog/statamic-at-spiegel-scale-2 https://statamic.com/blog/statamic-at-spiegel-scale-2 > So how does SPIEGEL do it? > Curious about how SPIEGEL’s stack works? Here’s their high level approach, keeping in mind this is running on v2. Upgrading to v3 streamlines even more of their stack. > A huge flat file content store organized with each entry inside its own subdirectory (you can’t have more than 10k files inside a single directory, an operating system limitation) > The content store is using a cloud storage solution. > Statamic’s control panel pushes entries into the content store, and then into an ElasticSearch instance via message queue. > ElasticSearch runs as a content API with blazing fast response times and is consumed by the control panel and front-end > The front-end is built in Go. > User accounts are connected with an Office 365 Active Directory integration with OAuth.

Oh, it's PHP - neat. Personally I think Statamic is the entry to beat for flat-file CMSes in the PHP space. This project is the Symfony flavor I suppose (vs Statamic being based on Laravel).

manuelmoreale 3y ago

Personally think https://getkirby.com https://getkirby.com is the entry to beat but I guess it’s just because I’m used to it and it works incredibly well for my use case.

chrisallick 3y ago
came here to say this. i went all over looking for a replacement... just pay for it. its exactly what you want. i built https://2020isasong.com/ https://2020isasong.com/ on kirby and tries to rebuild with grav and ended up deciding kirby was just too good.
- manuelmoreale 3y ago
  Agree and there’s something nice in using a paid product with a simple and straightforward license, no silly subscriptions and from a team that genuinely cares about the product. Plus the product itself is incredibly good and it’s getting better and better over time.
sdesol 3y ago
The active community for kirby is bigger than grav's as the following shows: https://devboard.gitsense.com/getkirby/kirby https://devboard.gitsense.com/getkirby/kirby https://devboard.gitsense.com/getgrav/grav https://devboard.gitsense.com/getgrav/grav Historically speaking, grav is more popular as it had over 2000 contributors, compared to kirby which is about 500. Full Disclosure: This is my tool
- manuelmoreale 3y ago
  It’s two different projects run in two different ways. I don’t think that looking at git is useful or insightful in this case.
  - sdesol 3y ago
    It is not just git though. It's looking at no code participation as well.
    - manuelmoreale 3y ago
      Yes but the two projects are run differently. Most of discussions around Kirby happen on the official discord server or on the official forum. So looking at git activity is not really all that useful.
      - sdesol 3y ago
        Yes you are right about not having the complete picture, as far as no code activity goes.
        manuelmoreale 3y ago
        But even from a code perspective I'm not sure comparing repos is always all that useful. I'm not sure about Grav but on the Kirby side, if I'm not mistaken, the current official repo started with the v3 and the two previous versions were archived. So you're only comparing the code activity from ~2019 onwards but Kirby has been around for more than 10 years at this point.
        sdesol 3y ago
        Thanks for the additional info. If we are were to just look at the repo stats, Kirby is a lot more active than Grav right now. Do you happen to know what the archived repos were and if they are public? If you look at https://devboard.gitsense.com/getkirby https://devboard.gitsense.com/getkirby you can see the insights for all the kirby org repos I do want to make it clear that Kirby is a very healthy project, if anybody is misinterpreting the data.
fbnlsr 3y ago
I've had the pleasure to build a small website with Kirby and it was such a joy to use as a developer. The only problem I faced was with my client as he was used to Wordpress and making the transition to Kirby was a bit rough for him.
- chiefalchemist 3y ago
  Can you unpack this a bit? What was rough? How much of that was the client not being able to change? I'm lightly looking into alternatives to WordPress. Obviously CraftCMS come up, but being a paid product - nothing work with that per se - does limit its appeal for some projects / client. So maybe there's a place for Kirby?
  - manuelmoreale 3y ago
    Keep in mind that Kirby is also a paid product
    - chiefalchemist 3y ago
      Oh? Thx. I missed that.
miragecraft 3y ago
Another vote for Kirby and I’ve tried them all.

arnorhs 3y ago

Wait, isn't laravel based on/using a bunch of libraries from symfony? Or did it just use to be that way and it has changed?

budrickfox 3y ago
Laravel the framework does use a bunch of Symfony libraries under the hood, but is still a very different framework. Symfony’s library offerings end up everywhere, with good reason. They’re used in but not strongly tied to the Symfony framework.

k4runa 3y ago

Statamic is great for simple sites but for larger or multilingual sites it has lots of problems. I have a 5000+ page website that the static site generator takes 3 hours to build and there's been no improvement since v3 launched. You can use their "Static Caching" as an alternative to static generating but for my project requirements I need a purely static site. I'm busy doing a huge rewrite and switching to using Statamic in headless mode with NextJS in the front... which takes just a couple of minutes to generate the static sites instead. I'm also still waiting for RTL support for languages in the CMS and multi-site permissions which has probably been on the roadmap for over a year but keeps getting delayed. I've submitted many ideas and bug reports on how to improve the multilingual experience but I don't think it's a priority for the team.

rtpg 3y ago
Serious: you should run a profiler on the generation step (or like... for a minute of it and the CTRL-C out). Often times degenerate cases like this exist but are more or less invisible to maintainers, and just saying "the generator takes forever" is not nearly as actionable as "here's the first 60 seconds of the generation process, does anything look weird?"
WA 3y ago
A very big German newspaper (https://www.spiegel.de/ https://www.spiegel.de/) runs on Statamic and they probably have an order of magnitude more pages. But not sure what kind of improvements/custom implementations they've done.
- tethys 3y ago
  This Statamic blog post has (at least some) insights: https://statamic.com/blog/statamic-at-spiegel-scale-2 https://statamic.com/blog/statamic-at-spiegel-scale-2 > So how does SPIEGEL do it? > Curious about how SPIEGEL’s stack works? Here’s their high level approach, keeping in mind this is running on v2. Upgrading to v3 streamlines even more of their stack. > A huge flat file content store organized with each entry inside its own subdirectory (you can’t have more than 10k files inside a single directory, an operating system limitation) > The content store is using a cloud storage solution. > Statamic’s control panel pushes entries into the content store, and then into an ElasticSearch instance via message queue. > ElasticSearch runs as a content API with blazing fast response times and is consumed by the control panel and front-end > The front-end is built in Go. > User accounts are connected with an Office 365 Active Directory integration with OAuth.