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> I don't mean to spoil the fun, downvote me if this is not in the spirit, but it took me way too long to figure this out and others may be as slow as me and sa

> I don't mean to spoil the fun, downvote me if this is not in the spirit, but it took me way too long to figure this out and others may be as slow as me and save some time by reading this comment: I believed it too. The thing is, this is something no one is really incentivized to lie about. If some website says "politician did X", then your lie detector turns on, because it's worth it for lots of websites to lie or mislead about that. It would be very hard to go through life questioning the veracity of every inconsequential bit of information that no one has an incentive to lie about. I don't think it demonstrates much that students believed it. And I especially don't think it means anything about gullibility about information found online. Almost certainly, if it were printed in a book, they'd be even more likely to believe it.

MattGaiser 3y ago
Add in that the animal world is full of wacky creatures that don't fit heuristic models for plausibility. People thought the Platypus was a hoax was it was initially discovered. It is real.
- mc32 3y ago
  Add the propensity to colloquially grant newly discovered things names that borrow from existing things: sea cow, catfish, etc. so why couldn’t there be something called a tree octopus?
  - MattGaiser 3y ago
    Today I learned that a tree crab is a thing. I knew a tree lobster was a thing. There is something that could plausibly be called a tree clam.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > Add the propensity to colloquially grant newly discovered things names that borrow from existing things: sea cow, catfish, etc. so why couldn’t there be something called a tree octopus? There could be. The name of the animal isn't what gives the lie away.
- stephenr 3y ago
  People still call the dropbear a hoax.
  - buildbot 3y ago
    Is it not? The Wikipedia article literally has in the tagline: famous hoax…
    - rpeden 3y ago
      That's certainly what the dropbears want you to believe.
      - red-iron-pine 3y ago
        They are pretty good with web browsers and typing
    - stephenr 3y ago
      Don’t believe everything you read on the internet. There are people who say birds aren’t real, or that Australia isn’t real, or that the earth is flat.
  - UncleSlacky 3y ago
    And haggis hunting: https://darachcroft.com/news/haggis-hunting-season-tips-and-tricks https://darachcroft.com/news/haggis-hunting-season-tips-and-...
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Add in that the animal world is full of wacky creatures that don't fit heuristic models for plausibility. The animal involved not meeting heuristic models for plausibility may be something that should trigger skepticism, but its not the thing that should tell you this is a lie.
replygirl 3y ago
i know enough about octopuses and forests that i don't have to care about the author's motives--i just have to skim the text or look at the photoshop. thinking a tree octopus is real because you saw a lot of words and can't relate them to a nexus of disinformation is a perfect example of gullibility
- BaseballPhysics 3y ago
  There are large crabs that climb trees and eat coconuts. There are fish that can survive on dry(-ish) land for extended periods of time. And don't get me started on the utterly bizarre slime mold. The number of species that defy our expectations is countless. Bluntly, there's a lot of arrogance in the claim that anyone should be able to easily and automatically rule out the existence of some species based on their personal knowledge, and that anyone who fails to do so is "gullible".
  - replygirl 3y ago
    > there's a lot of arrogance in the claim that anyone should be able to easily and automatically rule out the existence of some species based on their personal knowledge some, certainly yes. i don't think anyone would disagree that some claims are more plainly ridiculous than others. i'm replying to someone who let themselves be convinced the tree octopus was real by a page picturing an octopus climbing a tree. let's not abdicate our regard for common sense.
    - BaseballPhysics 3y ago
      I think you'll find your idea of "common sense" is perhaps not so universal as you think. For example, why is a tree octopus any less likely than the platypus, a venomous aquatic mammal that has a beak, lays eggs, and detects prey by sensing electric fields like a shark?
      - replygirl 3y ago
        call me arrogant but i won't stoop to the level i have to be at to take your question seriously. do i think i'm as intelligent as anyone, or that everyone is as intelligent as me? of course not. but i do think your standard for gullibility is too high if you don't think believing the linked article satisfies it.
alwaysbeconsing 3y ago
> The thing is, this is something no one is really incentivized to lie about I don't think it's lying in the sense of trying to make someone else actually believe it. It's just a form of creative fiction writing. It can be a lot of fun to write in this mode; when well done it's a pleasant kind of erudite humor because to produce it (and get it) you have to be somewhat knowledgeable in the topic. Mockumentaries might be the film/TV equivalent. Unfortunately (especially for certain subjects) it also confuses and causes strife if readers take it too seriously.
- Zuider 3y ago
  The British Flat Earth Society is a joke society in this vein. They amuse themselves by writing very erudite debunkings of the nefarious Spherical Earth conspiracy theory, and sending strongly worded Cease & Desist notices to NASA.
Teever 3y ago
> this is something no one is really incentivized to lie about. 'Click here to donate to my gofund me to save the amphibious octopus.'
tshaddox 3y ago
If no one is incentivized to lie about it, is anyone incentivized to tell the truth about it?
BowBun 3y ago
> And I especially don't think it means anything about gullibility about information found online You really think it means absolutely _nothing_ about this topic? It's literally an example of people believing what they read online! I think you're having an overly defensive reaction to probably falling for it. > It would be very hard to go through life questioning the veracity of every inconsequential bit of information that no one has an incentive to lie about The issue is you may not understand or fathom the reasons someone may lie about something. Imagine the strange traditions that leaders have maintained throughout history to help control their subjects. To those subjects, I'm sure they weren't even imagining that these things they thought were spiritual were just fictions. As for my point - yes you should try go through life with a certain level of curiosity and apprehension when people tell you things. I feel like a lot of our societal issues are a result of things continuing for no good reason, just because we've done it in the past. It's become fairly easy to fact-check, and while not popular at parties, it's important if you're actually trying to learn and build an accurate mental model. If people were more comfortable questioning all aspects of our society (and if society was receptive to the criticism), I feel like we would be better off.
dragonwriter 3y ago
> The thing is, this is something no one is really incentivized to lie about. If some website says "politician did X", then your lie detector turns on, because it's worth it for lots of websites to lie or mislead about that. The purpose of misleading about “politician did X” is to sell a call to action. Any time there is a call to action supported by a claim, there is an obvious motivation for misrepresentation (the very same one present when “politicia did X” is the claim.) This contains a call to action, ergo, it has an obvious motivation for misrepresentation. > I don't think it demonstrates much that students believed it. I think it demonstrates a lot that half of 13-year-old students in the US study believed a page which referenced a fictitious nation-state in the Pacific Northwest was reliable, leaving aside the other indicia of deception. Though whether what it says is about internet literacy or complete failure of education on geography perhaps less clear.
- godelski 3y ago
  > I think it demonstrates a lot that half of 13-year-old students in the US study believed a page which referenced a fictitious nation-state in the Pacific Northwest was reliable, leaving aside the other indicia of deception. I'm just going to leave this here >> Although the tree octopus is not officially listed on the Endangered Species List, we feel that it should be added since its numbers are at a critically low level for its breeding needs. The reasons for this dire situation include: decimation of habitat by logging and suburban encroachment; building of roads that cut off access to the water which it needs for spawning; predation by foreign species such as house cats; and booming populations of its natural predators, including the bald eagle and sasquatch.
- simondw 3y ago
  > fictitious nation-state Are you referring to Cascadia? That's a perfectly non-fictional name for the region (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Northwest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Northwest). Or maybe I missed another reference?
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    Cascadia is a perfectly non-fictional name for the region, the Republic of Cascadia Department of Cephalopod Conservation, OTOH, is an extremely fictional agency of an equally fictional government.
megmogandog 3y ago
It reminds me of a friend in high school who convinced me that he grew scallions in his bathroom. It seemed weird but he described it in some detail, how the humidity from the shower is good for them, etc. Then when I believed him he said of course I don't do that, how could you think something so ridiculous. I don't and didn't feel like believing him in this context made me gullible for the same kinds of reasons you outline, why doubt something so inconsequential, communicated 'sincerely'?
- topato 3y ago
  I could easily imagine an episode of Seinfeld where Kramer grows scallions in his bathroom
  - markdown 3y ago
    They'd be destroyed by the elephant showerhead.
- awwaiid 3y ago
  Best response / revenge is to actually grow scallions in your bathroom. Or at least pretend to.
  - ethbr0 3y ago
    Best response would be to sneak into your friend's bathroom and leave baby scallions.
    - __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
      In the back of the toilet.
- jimmydddd 3y ago
  Agreed. I think the fact that it was just "scalions" adds to the credibility.
- Natsu 3y ago
retrocryptid 3y ago
Pablo Picasso once said "Art is the lie that reveals the truth." Except that he didn't really say that. What he said was "Art is a lie that makes us realize truth, at least the truth that is given us to understand." (The Arts: An Illustrated Monthly Magazine Covering All Phases of Ancient and Modern Art, NYC, 1923) Is there a subtle truth to your friend's lie? It need not be related to scallions. We perceive the world through narrative. Perhaps your friend was introducing a fundamental truth through the revelation of scallions growing in a bathroom. Or at least that's how we would interpret it on my home planet of Zeta Reticulii IV. Of course the "fact" that I'm from Zeta Reticulii IV is a lie. I grew up in Texas. You can make your own decisions regarding the relative adherence to consensual reality between Texas and Zeta Reticulii IV. Perhaps the story of growing scallions in the bathroom is nothing other than the creation of a shared history. Does it matter that history is counter-factual? We're social beings. We do things like that.
- Zuider 3y ago
  In must cultures of the world, shared history is a consensual fiction, which is regarded as being truer than the truth.
molticrystal 3y ago
Well there are mudskippers [0] [1] which can end up crawling up to and resting on branches and trees growing out of the water. So while it seems untrue, it wouldn't be far fetched for a species of octopus adapted to end up doing so, especially if the out of water circumstances are narrow enough(very temporary, trunks & branches very close to water, etc). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudskippers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudskippers [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNCYSCHipvw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNCYSCHipvw
- mr_toad 3y ago
  There is a species of octopus that does crawl out of the water to hunt (Australian, of course), but they don’t climb trees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebeNeQFUMa0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebeNeQFUMa0
  - LilBytes 3y ago
    Well that Octopus and I have a lot of common. * live in Australia * love to eat Blue Swimmer Crabs
  - RajT88 3y ago
    And there's enough improbable animals out there it doesn't sound crazy. Shrimps that live in the desert, crabs that live on land, frogs which live in trees, lobsters and mussels and shrimps and jellyfish that live in fresh waters.
setgree 3y ago
So I immediately googled because it rang an alarm bell that some octopuses would develop specialized air-breathing apparatuses — that conflicts with my basic understanding of evolution. But I wasn’t googling it to falsify, but rather to see from a more ‘objective’ source if/how this occurred. I think it’s the same basic principle as hanging up if a relative calls you begging for money or proclaiming to be kidnapped and calling you back. The costs for double-checking incredible claims is often not that high.
brewdad 3y ago
The site does include a call to action. I think that’s the point where one needs to question things. I certainly don’t want to be the one that writes my Congressperson about this “hoax”. The next time I need something truly important, I’m likely to fall to the bottom of the pile.
JuanPosadas 3y ago
> It would be very hard to go through life questioning the veracity of every inconsequential bit of information that no one has an incentive to lie about. Some fish-looking sea creatures are actually mammals. Sea horses have pregnant males. Deep sea fish look like horror monsters. A fresh water octopus just isn't that unbelievable.
gweinberg 3y ago
Of course they would be more likely to believe a book, they should be. That's the point: making a web page is super easy, anyone can do it. Making a convincing fake issue of a science magazine would be a lot harder, it's highly unlikely someone would do it just for a joke. But really, if there were something as bizarre as a tree octopus, you would have heard of it.
Self-Perfection 3y ago
Even widespread information can be false. For instance, you can not "catch cold" by getting cold, the name of the illness is misleading. I mean absence of incentive to lie is far from universal criteria to distinguish false information.
brnt 3y ago
The incentive is practice in the conspiracy ideas market. It's fun to fool people, and these days it's profitable. Enter a popular conspiracy forum and you'll see how many are there to sell things. They create their own market.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

MattGaiser 3y ago

Add in that the animal world is full of wacky creatures that don't fit heuristic models for plausibility. People thought the Platypus was a hoax was it was initially discovered. It is real.

mc32 3y ago
Add the propensity to colloquially grant newly discovered things names that borrow from existing things: sea cow, catfish, etc. so why couldn’t there be something called a tree octopus?
- MattGaiser 3y ago
  Today I learned that a tree crab is a thing. I knew a tree lobster was a thing. There is something that could plausibly be called a tree clam.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Add the propensity to colloquially grant newly discovered things names that borrow from existing things: sea cow, catfish, etc. so why couldn’t there be something called a tree octopus? There could be. The name of the animal isn't what gives the lie away.
stephenr 3y ago
People still call the dropbear a hoax.
- buildbot 3y ago
  Is it not? The Wikipedia article literally has in the tagline: famous hoax…
  - rpeden 3y ago
    That's certainly what the dropbears want you to believe.
    - red-iron-pine 3y ago
      They are pretty good with web browsers and typing
  - stephenr 3y ago
    Don’t believe everything you read on the internet. There are people who say birds aren’t real, or that Australia isn’t real, or that the earth is flat.
- UncleSlacky 3y ago
  And haggis hunting: https://darachcroft.com/news/haggis-hunting-season-tips-and-tricks https://darachcroft.com/news/haggis-hunting-season-tips-and-...
dragonwriter 3y ago
> Add in that the animal world is full of wacky creatures that don't fit heuristic models for plausibility. The animal involved not meeting heuristic models for plausibility may be something that should trigger skepticism, but its not the thing that should tell you this is a lie.

replygirl 3y ago

i know enough about octopuses and forests that i don't have to care about the author's motives--i just have to skim the text or look at the photoshop. thinking a tree octopus is real because you saw a lot of words and can't relate them to a nexus of disinformation is a perfect example of gullibility

BaseballPhysics 3y ago
There are large crabs that climb trees and eat coconuts. There are fish that can survive on dry(-ish) land for extended periods of time. And don't get me started on the utterly bizarre slime mold. The number of species that defy our expectations is countless. Bluntly, there's a lot of arrogance in the claim that anyone should be able to easily and automatically rule out the existence of some species based on their personal knowledge, and that anyone who fails to do so is "gullible".
- replygirl 3y ago
  > there's a lot of arrogance in the claim that anyone should be able to easily and automatically rule out the existence of some species based on their personal knowledge some, certainly yes. i don't think anyone would disagree that some claims are more plainly ridiculous than others. i'm replying to someone who let themselves be convinced the tree octopus was real by a page picturing an octopus climbing a tree. let's not abdicate our regard for common sense.
  - BaseballPhysics 3y ago
    I think you'll find your idea of "common sense" is perhaps not so universal as you think. For example, why is a tree octopus any less likely than the platypus, a venomous aquatic mammal that has a beak, lays eggs, and detects prey by sensing electric fields like a shark?
    - replygirl 3y ago
      call me arrogant but i won't stoop to the level i have to be at to take your question seriously. do i think i'm as intelligent as anyone, or that everyone is as intelligent as me? of course not. but i do think your standard for gullibility is too high if you don't think believing the linked article satisfies it.

alwaysbeconsing 3y ago

> The thing is, this is something no one is really incentivized to lie about I don't think it's lying in the sense of trying to make someone else actually believe it. It's just a form of creative fiction writing. It can be a lot of fun to write in this mode; when well done it's a pleasant kind of erudite humor because to produce it (and get it) you have to be somewhat knowledgeable in the topic. Mockumentaries might be the film/TV equivalent. Unfortunately (especially for certain subjects) it also confuses and causes strife if readers take it too seriously.

Zuider 3y ago
The British Flat Earth Society is a joke society in this vein. They amuse themselves by writing very erudite debunkings of the nefarious Spherical Earth conspiracy theory, and sending strongly worded Cease & Desist notices to NASA.

Teever 3y ago

> this is something no one is really incentivized to lie about. 'Click here to donate to my gofund me to save the amphibious octopus.'

tshaddox 3y ago

If no one is incentivized to lie about it, is anyone incentivized to tell the truth about it?

BowBun 3y ago

> And I especially don't think it means anything about gullibility about information found online You really think it means absolutely _nothing_ about this topic? It's literally an example of people believing what they read online! I think you're having an overly defensive reaction to probably falling for it. > It would be very hard to go through life questioning the veracity of every inconsequential bit of information that no one has an incentive to lie about The issue is you may not understand or fathom the reasons someone may lie about something. Imagine the strange traditions that leaders have maintained throughout history to help control their subjects. To those subjects, I'm sure they weren't even imagining that these things they thought were spiritual were just fictions. As for my point - yes you should try go through life with a certain level of curiosity and apprehension when people tell you things. I feel like a lot of our societal issues are a result of things continuing for no good reason, just because we've done it in the past. It's become fairly easy to fact-check, and while not popular at parties, it's important if you're actually trying to learn and build an accurate mental model. If people were more comfortable questioning all aspects of our society (and if society was receptive to the criticism), I feel like we would be better off.

dragonwriter 3y ago

> The thing is, this is something no one is really incentivized to lie about. If some website says "politician did X", then your lie detector turns on, because it's worth it for lots of websites to lie or mislead about that. The purpose of misleading about “politician did X” is to sell a call to action. Any time there is a call to action supported by a claim, there is an obvious motivation for misrepresentation (the very same one present when “politicia did X” is the claim.) This contains a call to action, ergo, it has an obvious motivation for misrepresentation. > I don't think it demonstrates much that students believed it. I think it demonstrates a lot that half of 13-year-old students in the US study believed a page which referenced a fictitious nation-state in the Pacific Northwest was reliable, leaving aside the other indicia of deception. Though whether what it says is about internet literacy or complete failure of education on geography perhaps less clear.

godelski 3y ago
> I think it demonstrates a lot that half of 13-year-old students in the US study believed a page which referenced a fictitious nation-state in the Pacific Northwest was reliable, leaving aside the other indicia of deception. I'm just going to leave this here >> Although the tree octopus is not officially listed on the Endangered Species List, we feel that it should be added since its numbers are at a critically low level for its breeding needs. The reasons for this dire situation include: decimation of habitat by logging and suburban encroachment; building of roads that cut off access to the water which it needs for spawning; predation by foreign species such as house cats; and booming populations of its natural predators, including the bald eagle and sasquatch.
simondw 3y ago
> fictitious nation-state Are you referring to Cascadia? That's a perfectly non-fictional name for the region (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Northwest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Northwest). Or maybe I missed another reference?
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  Cascadia is a perfectly non-fictional name for the region, the Republic of Cascadia Department of Cephalopod Conservation, OTOH, is an extremely fictional agency of an equally fictional government.

megmogandog 3y ago

It reminds me of a friend in high school who convinced me that he grew scallions in his bathroom. It seemed weird but he described it in some detail, how the humidity from the shower is good for them, etc. Then when I believed him he said of course I don't do that, how could you think something so ridiculous. I don't and didn't feel like believing him in this context made me gullible for the same kinds of reasons you outline, why doubt something so inconsequential, communicated 'sincerely'?

topato 3y ago
I could easily imagine an episode of Seinfeld where Kramer grows scallions in his bathroom
- markdown 3y ago
  They'd be destroyed by the elephant showerhead.
awwaiid 3y ago
Best response / revenge is to actually grow scallions in your bathroom. Or at least pretend to.
- ethbr0 3y ago
  Best response would be to sneak into your friend's bathroom and leave baby scallions.
  - __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
    In the back of the toilet.
jimmydddd 3y ago
Agreed. I think the fact that it was just "scalions" adds to the credibility.
Natsu 3y ago

retrocryptid 3y ago

Pablo Picasso once said "Art is the lie that reveals the truth." Except that he didn't really say that. What he said was "Art is a lie that makes us realize truth, at least the truth that is given us to understand." (The Arts: An Illustrated Monthly Magazine Covering All Phases of Ancient and Modern Art, NYC, 1923) Is there a subtle truth to your friend's lie? It need not be related to scallions. We perceive the world through narrative. Perhaps your friend was introducing a fundamental truth through the revelation of scallions growing in a bathroom. Or at least that's how we would interpret it on my home planet of Zeta Reticulii IV. Of course the "fact" that I'm from Zeta Reticulii IV is a lie. I grew up in Texas. You can make your own decisions regarding the relative adherence to consensual reality between Texas and Zeta Reticulii IV. Perhaps the story of growing scallions in the bathroom is nothing other than the creation of a shared history. Does it matter that history is counter-factual? We're social beings. We do things like that.

Zuider 3y ago
In must cultures of the world, shared history is a consensual fiction, which is regarded as being truer than the truth.

molticrystal 3y ago

Well there are mudskippers [0] [1] which can end up crawling up to and resting on branches and trees growing out of the water. So while it seems untrue, it wouldn't be far fetched for a species of octopus adapted to end up doing so, especially if the out of water circumstances are narrow enough(very temporary, trunks & branches very close to water, etc). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudskippers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudskippers [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNCYSCHipvw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNCYSCHipvw

mr_toad 3y ago
There is a species of octopus that does crawl out of the water to hunt (Australian, of course), but they don’t climb trees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebeNeQFUMa0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebeNeQFUMa0
- LilBytes 3y ago
  Well that Octopus and I have a lot of common. * live in Australia * love to eat Blue Swimmer Crabs
- RajT88 3y ago
  And there's enough improbable animals out there it doesn't sound crazy. Shrimps that live in the desert, crabs that live on land, frogs which live in trees, lobsters and mussels and shrimps and jellyfish that live in fresh waters.

setgree 3y ago

So I immediately googled because it rang an alarm bell that some octopuses would develop specialized air-breathing apparatuses — that conflicts with my basic understanding of evolution. But I wasn’t googling it to falsify, but rather to see from a more ‘objective’ source if/how this occurred. I think it’s the same basic principle as hanging up if a relative calls you begging for money or proclaiming to be kidnapped and calling you back. The costs for double-checking incredible claims is often not that high.

brewdad 3y ago

The site does include a call to action. I think that’s the point where one needs to question things. I certainly don’t want to be the one that writes my Congressperson about this “hoax”. The next time I need something truly important, I’m likely to fall to the bottom of the pile.

JuanPosadas 3y ago

> It would be very hard to go through life questioning the veracity of every inconsequential bit of information that no one has an incentive to lie about. Some fish-looking sea creatures are actually mammals. Sea horses have pregnant males. Deep sea fish look like horror monsters. A fresh water octopus just isn't that unbelievable.

gweinberg 3y ago

Of course they would be more likely to believe a book, they should be. That's the point: making a web page is super easy, anyone can do it. Making a convincing fake issue of a science magazine would be a lot harder, it's highly unlikely someone would do it just for a joke. But really, if there were something as bizarre as a tree octopus, you would have heard of it.

Self-Perfection 3y ago

Even widespread information can be false. For instance, you can not "catch cold" by getting cold, the name of the illness is misleading. I mean absence of incentive to lie is far from universal criteria to distinguish false information.

brnt 3y ago

The incentive is practice in the conspiracy ideas market. It's fun to fool people, and these days it's profitable. Enter a popular conspiracy forum and you'll see how many are there to sell things. They create their own market.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]