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Unless bike theft is solved, an e-bike will remain a toy for the weekends for most people. An expensive e-bike is a prime target to thieves. They require a sec
by bluescrn 3y ago
Unless bike theft is solved, an e-bike will remain a toy for the weekends for most people. An expensive e-bike is a prime target to thieves.
They require a secure indoor storage space at both ends of the any journey, and many potential users lack that, either at their workplace or their home (e.g living in an apartment only accessible via stairs)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- blamazon 3y agoCars once upon a time required a secure storage space for security. Technology improved, comprehensive insurance became a social norm, etc, and now you can just snug it against a curb, hop out of your car and press a button and generally not worry about theft, but if it does happen you're covered. Why can't e-bikes be this way? My answer: they can and are, just not all of them yet.
- c22 3y agoI put a two-way car alarm on my ebike and it works exactly like this.
- bluescrn 3y agoCar theft is rather more policed because a 2-ton 100mph+ car can easily kill or cause a lot of damage in the wrong hands. Bike theft is down there with shoplifting or recreational drug use when it comes to policing priorities. But when a bike is stolen, often a person is losing an important means of transportation, so perhaps it should be taken more seriously. Not going to happen in a ‘soft on crime’ society, though.
- blamazon 3y agoI propose, somewhat tautologically, that the primary reason why car theft is generally well policed (in USA, where my lived experiences have primarily been) is that it's generally a small enough problem for most police departments to get their arms around because of basic anti theft technology. I believe the Kia/Hyundai debacle of the last few years supports this idea: > So far this year, Minneapolis police have received 1,899 Kia and Hyundai theft reports, nearly 18 times the number for the same period in 2022. [1] [1]: https://apnews.com/article/hyundai-kia-tiktok-theft-stolen-8e0a353d24be0e7bce36e34c5e4dac51 https://apnews.com/article/hyundai-kia-tiktok-theft-stolen-8...
- analog31 3y agoIt may be that car theft is more policed because of political pressure from insurance companies, and because cars were typically more valuable than bikes. Fighting car theft lowers insurance rates. But virtually nobody insures a bike.
- blamazon 3y agoI would also imagine most police officers in USA patrol their jurisdiction in automobiles, not on bicycles. Number 2 is probably motorcycles. I would also venture to guess that most officers don't cycle to work or in their free time.
- analog31 3y agoIndeed, but their priorities are set by their departments and cities.
- wpietri 3y agoI don't think this is a "soft on crime" question. As you say, bikes are a low priority. But bikes were long considered a low priority in things like road design. The lack of bike lanes isn't getting better because people are getting tougher on crime. It's because we're getting rid of some of the classist nonsense that treats people able to afford cars as more important than those who couldn't. And also because bike commuting has become a middle- and upper-class phenomenon.
- blisterpeanuts 3y agoCar theft, at this point, is mostly a law enforcement issue. A very active, motivated anti-theft team can shut down theft rings and at least keep it down to a dull roar, versus almost total negligence in cities like San Francisco. I'm particularly fond of theft magnets, very attractive stealable cars equipped with cameras and remote shutdown and a team watching from a distance. Park it at a mall or on some side street, wait for the trap to be sprung, and poof! One less thief on the loose. Bikes, not so sure. A good U-lock and a plastic-coated cable are a start, but these can be defeated within a minute by a professional. I just heard on one of the YT China channels that people are indeed taking their batteries with them when they park their bikes, not so much out of fear of common theft, but because the police are empowered to confiscate e-bikes for a variety of infractions and it's almost impossible to get them back.
- wpietri 3y agoBait bikes are also a thing. E.g.: https://www.ocregister.com/2020/12/09/irvine-orange-and-other-cities-use-bait-bikes-to-catch-thieves/ https://www.ocregister.com/2020/12/09/irvine-orange-and-othe... I also saw Mark Rober speak yesterday, I think with Allen Pan. He mentioned doing some sort of video where they built bait bikes and used them to sucker thieves. And I think Rober said they are doing another bike theft project where they'll be trying to trace things to the higher ups. So I think the lack here is more that of a motivated anti-theft team. But motivation may be hard to come by. Not only are bike thefts notoriously low priority, only 21.5% of SFPD officers actually live in SF: https://missionlocal.org/2023/07/sf-police-firefighters-super-commute-out-of-state/ https://missionlocal.org/2023/07/sf-police-firefighters-supe... Quality of life crimes matter a lot less when it's not your quality of life.
- somerandomqaguy 3y agoTechnology improved, but cars one main advantage. To steal a 4000lbs car one needs either a tow truck, or to enable the engine, or a lot of guys to push. To steal a 15 lbs bicycle, one need only pick it up and walk away.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- rcpt 3y agoE bikes are a lot heavier than 15 lbs
- sleepybrett 3y agoI am reminded of this reddit post and it's picture https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/13og4mc/thats_one_way_to_steal_a_bike/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/comments/13og4mc/thats_one_.... Most e-bikes have a lock on the battery that can be toggled to cut out the motor, though I think it can still be pedaled, but this is why you always lock through the frame and the the back wheel...
- dukeyukey 3y agoStill plenty carrayable by one person.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoSame issue with motorcycles and people just buy insurance, which you can do with bikes too.
- vel0city 3y agoI can pick up a bicycle and walk away with very little effort. They're usually less than 20lbs. My motorcycle is 500lbs wet. Close to 700 with full cases. Are you really suggesting it's just as easy stealing a 500-700lb bike as a 20lb bike?
- 3y ago
- kjkjadksj 3y agoAll bikes are like that today. Just put it on your renters or homeowners insurance.
- vwcx 3y agoAgreed. People forget that until the late-90s, many were still buying theft protection devices they installed every time they exited the vehicle.
- swader999 3y agoSolved it by buying crappy police auction bikes, defective power tool battery packs off eBay and cheap hub motors from China. Make the bike look ugly take your home made soldiered pack with you when you park. $1500-4000 depending on how fast and how far you need to go. I can rearrange the packs and there isn't a bike that is faster, but 48 volts at about 50km/hr is the sweet spot for safety and practical commuting. Nobody is going to hassle you about an illegal bike if you don't ride like an idiot.
- DaveExeter 3y ago>defective power tool battery packs off eBay They have some good cells and some bad ones?
- swader999 3y agoYes, I did this 15 years ago with the Dewalt A123 cells. Usually only one cell had failed. Betty you could still do the same.
- macintux 3y agoMy father took the “make it too ugly to steal” approach with his bicycle in college. Still got stolen.
- euroderf 3y agoIn Finland there was a trend to paint bikes in gnarly solid colors. My buddy chose pink. Too ugly, and too much work to unidentifiable.
- jeffbee 3y agoThe sales of e-bikes are not consistent with your statement. The market does not think this is a showstopper.
- readingistuff 3y agoI have a cargo e bike, I use it for everything from hardware store, to nursery, to Costco, to child transport. It's an incredibly versatile mode of transport and it's what I use for about half of my local travel now. With a heavy chain and a cafe lock, theft is pretty low on my list of concerns.
- treprinum 3y agoWhat prevents anyone from using e.g. embedded Apple tags to monitor their bike whereabouts?
- ndsipa_pomu 3y agoWouldn't a thief receive a stalking alert if they've got an iPhone?
- woleium 3y agosop for thieves is to move the bike and leave it for a week then come pick it up if the owner hasn't come to get it.
- ndsipa_pomu 3y agoI thought that organised bike thieves would quickly hand them over to have their parts stripped and then sold separately. If they store the stolen bikes somewhere, then it'd be easy for police to set up a honeypot bike operation with a tracker inserted into the frame. Lock it up somewhere that's known for thefts and wait for it to be nicked.
- bugglebeetle 3y agoBy the time the notification goes off, your bike is gone and the police largely do not care, unless it’s a large-scale, thief-to-reseller ring. The only thing that really works is motorcycle locks and alarms, but the effective ones are pricey.
- Renaud 3y agoI recently found these tiny Invoxia GPS trackers that use the LORA network to send their whereabouts. It’s really tiny, like half a stick of gum but lasts weeks between charges. Sends a notification whenever the bike is moved and tracks location when it’s on the move. Also hidden an Air Tag and added a rear-light that doubles as an alarm when the bike is moved. Still won’t leave the bike out for the night but feeling a bit better when I’m not around during the day.
- 3y ago
- ndsipa_pomu 3y agoThere's an interesting problem here in Bristol where a couple had improvised an e-cargo bike locking solution on the side of the road using a couple of planters. Unfortunately, the council aren't happy about it and are threatening to remove them. Seems like parking spaces are unfairly prioritising cars or at least aren't flexible in providing locking points for e-bikes. Bristol City Council do have a scheme for bike hangars which are placed on the road (take up about the same space as a car, but provide storage for about 6 bikes), but there's a long waiting list and a cargo bike wouldn't fit in one. https://road.cc/content/news/cyclist-couple-challenge-council-over-diy-bike-parking-302507 https://road.cc/content/news/cyclist-couple-challenge-counci...
- pmg102 3y agoI'm generally pro-cycling but I found this story curious. No-one can reserve spots outside their house, for a car or any other purpose. So it seemed they were arguing not for parity with car users, which I would unquestionably support, but for special treatment? Although I don't really understand why you can't reserve/pay for the spot outside your own house, for a vehicle OR a bike, which would seem to me a solution that would please everyone.
- ndsipa_pomu 3y agoYeah, it's a tricky one as people shouldn't be able to reserve spaces outside their house on a public road, but they're only wanting to do that because there aren't any facilities to lock a cargo bike to. I think a series of simple metal hoops installed on the pavement (sidewalk?) next to the road would provide a decent solution and would also prevent drivers parking cars on the pavements which is very common with our narrow roads. It's in our interest to make it easier and more convenient to get people to replace car journeys with bike journeys and cargo bikes fill a very useful niche for transporting kids and other stuff around.
- daveoc64 3y ago>Unfortunately, the council aren't happy about it and are threatening to remove them. Quite rightly too - it's simply not legal for them to put it there. There are proper processes in place to get an official hangar installed. These might be challenging, but that's the only fair way to do things. I think the biggest problem with cars is that we happily accept the impact they have on the entire community, just so that some people who use them can have more convenience. The cost of having a car is passed on to everyone. Similarly, with bikes it's never going to be possible for every single person in the city to have a cargo bike parked outside their house - there simply isn't room. This isn't ideal, but a situation where only someone who gets there first can do it isn't ideal either.
- hughesjj 3y agoThey really don't, at least not in Seattle. I mean maybe if you're using cable locks yeah but the great thing about ebikes is that they have motors-- my big ass fuck off chain isn't a huge deal to carry around in the panier/basket, and it's easier to circular saw through my frame. You can also do the motorcycle integrated wheel locks, or spend like 30 bucks for one that gets set off by the vibrations caused by cutting Hell even if my bike got stolen every month it's still cheaper to just buy a new one than car ownership once you factor in gas and maintenence, let alone parking. I hate parking. Not paying for it, but finding a spot. It sucks. And I'd rather deal with someone taking something off my bike than smashing my window again. Idk man, I encourage anyone to give an ebike a try. They're fantastic.
- wpietri 3y agoA big reason cars don't require secure storage is better policing. Here in San Francisco there's been a lot of talk about how the SFPD these days isn't taking theft from cars and theft of catalytic converters very seriously. They aren't wrong; the SFPD seems pretty slack to me. But what they're missing is that the SFPD has always been like this for bicycles. A while back I had only locked my front wheel and my frame, so some dedicated thief stole the back wheel. I walked in to the nearest police station with the remains of my bike. The cop on the desk asked why I was there. "To report a crime," said I, holding up the bike. He looked befuddled, asking if I needed it for an insurance report or something. "No, I thought that the police might want to know about a crime." He shrugged and took the report, but clearly did not give a shit. If cops took bike theft as seriously as car theft (which they should given that in both cases it can be somebody's primary transportation) I think we'd see a lot more e-bike usage.
- wccrawford 3y agoI don't know what my local police are like for bike theft, but given how poorly they handle theft from inside cars, I have no hope that they can do anything about any kind of theft, ever. They even had a security camera video of the person, knew who it was, and even where they frequently are, but flat-out told us they weren't going to do anything because it was pointless and they'd just be back at it soon. We weren't missing much from that theft, but some of our neighbors were. And so it is extremely unlikely that I'd leave my cheap bike anywhere, let alone my electric bike or scooter, no matter how well-locked it was. It 100% goes with me, or I don't take it at all.
- type0 3y ago> theft of catalytic converters very seriously Cops don't care about it, virtually nowhere in the World The same goes for bikes in most cities. Strangely enough they seem to care about theft of jewellery more, even if a bike is more expensive.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoBike theft is solved the same way car theft is solved. You merely insure the bike.
- mitthrowaway2 3y agoThat works if bike theft is a rare condition that strikes a few unlucky people. But if bike theft is really a chronic problem, insurance can't possibly cost less than buying a new bike every time it's stolen. Otherwise the insurance company would lose money.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoThe insurance pool isnt just bikes. Renters insurance you are insured in the few hundred grand range if you really tallied up what is covered. A couple hundred dollar bike is hardly a dent in comparison to what the premiums are designed to potentially cover.
- nerdbert 3y agoBike theft is a fairly big thing here in Amsterdam but insurance is easy to get and affordable. For more expensive bikes they insist on certain types of locks, etc., and it's possible that simply following those requirements is enough to make insured bikes less of a target than uninsured, on average.
- tacticalturtle 3y agoWe’re starting to see more e-bikes have GPS tracking built into the frame, at least with higher end models. See Canyon, VanMoof before they collapsed, etc If that becomes more widespread, e-bike theft will be a lot riskier, and hopefully easier for companies to insure.
- aBioGuy 3y agoUnpopular (?) opinion: don't worry about theft. If you are making developer-money then a $1000-$3000 bike is a trivial amount of money. Just use a cafe-lock with a sturdy chain and go about your life. It gets stolen? Buy a new one. Seems silly to be hesitant on a eBike because of a theoretical concern. Finding an environment where you are reasonably safe from getting murdered by a vehicle should be your primary concern. Everything else is just noise.
- nosefurhairdo 3y agoThe author of this post specifically recommends stretching your budget for the best possible e-bike. By definition, if one stretched their budget for a thing it is nontrivial to replace that thing. Also, people are not robots. Even if you can afford to replace a thing there remains a psychological toll from theft.
- triceratops 3y agoI make developer money but that's just stupid. Sorry, no other word for it. $1000-3000 is absolutely not a "trivial amount of money" objectively. If I was going to lose that kind of money, I'd at least want to donate it so it could help someone in need.
- thfuran 3y agoThe average software engineer salary is about $110k in the US and about $55k in the UK. You're just living in some ridiculous bubble.
- globular-toast 3y agoIt seems pretty simple to replace one car parking space with secure parking for five or so bicycles. Just need to massively reduce spending on car infrastructure and other subsidies for cars and reallocate the money to bicycles instead.
- ez_mmk 3y agoHigh quality locks prevent theft
- Ylpertnodi 3y agoThe lock-picking lawyer on youtube may disagree.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoThe LPL is a highly-skilled picker; he has access to all the right tools; he practices a lot; he researches every lock before he starts the video.
- dukeyukey 3y agoOr you use a folding bike, where you just bring it with you. I put mine under my office desk.
- DANmode 3y agoMany potential users can also take it the three miles to the corner store or grocery store in place of their SUV, and store it in the same garage. One thing at a time.