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Agree with most of this, but your first point is not true of OpenAI. Their terms of service forbid them from training on API inputs unless you explicitly opt in

Agree with most of this, but your first point is not true of OpenAI. Their terms of service forbid them from training on API inputs unless you explicitly opt in.

esperent 3y ago
That's totally false, and you can't even save a chat history on ChatGPT unless you leave this option set to on.
- actualwitch 3y ago
  Whole point of ChatGPT is to collect data to do reinforcement learning, gp is talking about API access which has different terms (and wasn't banned in eu because of that).
  - esperent 3y ago
    > Whole point of ChatGPT is to collect data to do reinforcement learning No, the point of ChatGPT is to provide a UI to chat with GPT models. Taking the data generated by users and using it for commercial purposes without consent is very likely to be illegal in the EU. Unfortunately they often take years to tackle this kind of stuff.
    - daveguy 3y ago
      It does comply with EU GDPR laws -- EU users are allowed to opt out of training. This was after regulators in Italy shut it down. The US FTC is investigating too. https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-ftc-opens-investigation-into-openai-washington-post-2023-07-13/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-ftc-opens-investigatio...
      - esperent 3y ago
        To comply with GDPR it has to be opt in, and choosing not to opt in has to not affect the app's functionality. Currently, it's opt-out, and doing so destroys your chat history. They did manage to satisfy Italian regulators but I expect they'll get called out on this more thoroughly in the future. Or maybe they just changed the way this works for Italy?
- losteric 3y ago
  OpenAI API is not ChatGPT UI And the prior poster is right, OpenAI API eula/tos clearly state data is not retained by default. I've been involved with legal counsel reviews, on that point there's zero ambiguity.
  - spdustin 3y ago
    To be clear, API data is retained for 30 days, to be used for determining usage policy violations.
msla 3y ago
I doubt there's enough enforcement behind that to make it plausible.
- sebzim4500 3y ago
  I don't see why the guarantees you get by using e.g. Azure's LLM api are any different from the ones you get when using Azure for anything. I guess I can see why you would trust AWS/Azure/GCP over OpenAI, since they are bigger companies arguably with more to lose.

Agree with most of this, but your first point is not true of OpenAI. Their terms of service forbid them from training on API inputs unless you explicitly opt in.

esperent 3y ago

That's totally false, and you can't even save a chat history on ChatGPT unless you leave this option set to on.

actualwitch 3y ago
Whole point of ChatGPT is to collect data to do reinforcement learning, gp is talking about API access which has different terms (and wasn't banned in eu because of that).
- esperent 3y ago
  > Whole point of ChatGPT is to collect data to do reinforcement learning No, the point of ChatGPT is to provide a UI to chat with GPT models. Taking the data generated by users and using it for commercial purposes without consent is very likely to be illegal in the EU. Unfortunately they often take years to tackle this kind of stuff.
  - daveguy 3y ago
    It does comply with EU GDPR laws -- EU users are allowed to opt out of training. This was after regulators in Italy shut it down. The US FTC is investigating too. https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-ftc-opens-investigation-into-openai-washington-post-2023-07-13/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-ftc-opens-investigatio...
    - esperent 3y ago
      To comply with GDPR it has to be opt in, and choosing not to opt in has to not affect the app's functionality. Currently, it's opt-out, and doing so destroys your chat history. They did manage to satisfy Italian regulators but I expect they'll get called out on this more thoroughly in the future. Or maybe they just changed the way this works for Italy?
losteric 3y ago
OpenAI API is not ChatGPT UI And the prior poster is right, OpenAI API eula/tos clearly state data is not retained by default. I've been involved with legal counsel reviews, on that point there's zero ambiguity.
- spdustin 3y ago
  To be clear, API data is retained for 30 days, to be used for determining usage policy violations.

msla 3y ago

I doubt there's enough enforcement behind that to make it plausible.

sebzim4500 3y ago
I don't see why the guarantees you get by using e.g. Azure's LLM api are any different from the ones you get when using Azure for anything. I guess I can see why you would trust AWS/Azure/GCP over OpenAI, since they are bigger companies arguably with more to lose.