4 ms·

From the article, it seems there is tactile feedback on the buttons—the author says they aren’t sure which button was the 2 button, implying they could differen

by arijun 3y ago

From the article, it seems there is tactile feedback on the buttons—the author says they aren’t sure which button was the 2 button, implying they could differentiate buttons. Your solution seems strictly worse. If they’re setting the time with a knob, how do they get 1:35 instead of a guesstimate of the time? How do they change the power level, use the defrost mode, the popcorn preset? They don’t need to put AI into everything, but having these niceties often help those with disabilities navigate life more easily, and I’m all for it.

deely3 3y ago
> Your solution seems strictly worse. If they’re setting the time with a knob, how do they get 1:35 instead of a guesstimate of the time? How do they change the power level, use the defrost mode, the popcorn preset? They could use knobs with beveled points and with clear beveled icons/text around the knobs? I suppose we should ask visual impired person instead of guessing.
- marcinzm 3y ago
  >I suppose we should ask visual impired person instead of guessing. You mean like the one who presumably wrote the linked article that non-blind people are arguing against the suggestion from?
sublinear 3y ago
> If they’re setting the time with a knob, how do they get 1:35 instead of a guesstimate of the time? A stepped dial would solve this. > How do they change the power level, use the defrost mode, the popcorn preset? A grid of radio buttons would solve this. It's not like we don't know how to engineer accessible technology. They really do just want to cram AI into everything.
- petepete 3y ago
  What kind of feedback do you get from a grid of buttons? How do I know whether 1 is top left (like a phone) or bottom left (like a keyboard)? Once the initial setup is out of the way (which I admit is probably a bit of a pain) being able to either talk to it or have it announce what's about to happen seems like a good idea.
- madaxe_again 3y ago
  I don’t know - I think for an awful lot of applications, language is the ideal interface. In 10 years, I want to be able to say “make me some toast and then go feed the cats” to my domestic robot, not sit there twiddling dials to select the toast function and accidentally combining the command with “feed cat” and ending up with “feed me toasted cat”. Interfaces should be intuitive. Human language is intuitive for all humans who are ever likely to interact with an interface.
  - ghusbands 3y ago
    Look at the comment from wincy detailing very dangerous outcomes [1] to see why voice control might not always be best. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36745581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36745581
- ghusbands 3y ago
  > A stepped dial would solve this. I've used many stepped-dial microwaves, and not a single one of them would be good for blind users. The step often changes size after a certain point and steps are often missed. If you're aiming for six and a half minutes, having to do mental arithmetic or keep careful track is not fun ("12 ticks to reach a minute and then 11 ticks of half minutes, and let's hope it actually got them all"). In my direct experience, the best interfaces for blind users are ones that can have tactile/braille labels applied and ones with voice feedback, in that order.
yread 3y ago
Popcorn preset? Who uses that? What does it even do? Dont microwave popcorn bags just say 3 minutes at 600W?
- sgerenser 3y ago
  Popcorn presets either detect steam once the popcorn is almost done popping (then runs for N more seconds), or actually use a microphone to detect the time between pops (I think the latter is more accurate). If done well, it can work well. Apparently it’s often not done well because the bags of microwave popcorn almost always say “don’t use popcorn setting!”
  - ghusbands 3y ago
    The problematic popcorn settings are the ones that don't have any such detection and instead ask you to enter a weight and they choose an amount of time based on that. It's very inaccurate and causes either many unpopped kernels or some burning.
- vel0city 3y ago
  3 minutes at 600W? My microwave is 1680W. What's the right conversion? Is this bag a little small, is this one a little large? My single button sensor has never made a bad batch yet.

by arijun 3y ago

deely3 3y ago

> Your solution seems strictly worse. If they’re setting the time with a knob, how do they get 1:35 instead of a guesstimate of the time? How do they change the power level, use the defrost mode, the popcorn preset? They could use knobs with beveled points and with clear beveled icons/text around the knobs? I suppose we should ask visual impired person instead of guessing.

marcinzm 3y ago
>I suppose we should ask visual impired person instead of guessing. You mean like the one who presumably wrote the linked article that non-blind people are arguing against the suggestion from?

sublinear 3y ago

> If they’re setting the time with a knob, how do they get 1:35 instead of a guesstimate of the time? A stepped dial would solve this. > How do they change the power level, use the defrost mode, the popcorn preset? A grid of radio buttons would solve this. It's not like we don't know how to engineer accessible technology. They really do just want to cram AI into everything.

petepete 3y ago
What kind of feedback do you get from a grid of buttons? How do I know whether 1 is top left (like a phone) or bottom left (like a keyboard)? Once the initial setup is out of the way (which I admit is probably a bit of a pain) being able to either talk to it or have it announce what's about to happen seems like a good idea.
madaxe_again 3y ago
I don’t know - I think for an awful lot of applications, language is the ideal interface. In 10 years, I want to be able to say “make me some toast and then go feed the cats” to my domestic robot, not sit there twiddling dials to select the toast function and accidentally combining the command with “feed cat” and ending up with “feed me toasted cat”. Interfaces should be intuitive. Human language is intuitive for all humans who are ever likely to interact with an interface.
- ghusbands 3y ago
  Look at the comment from wincy detailing very dangerous outcomes [1] to see why voice control might not always be best. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36745581 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36745581
ghusbands 3y ago
> A stepped dial would solve this. I've used many stepped-dial microwaves, and not a single one of them would be good for blind users. The step often changes size after a certain point and steps are often missed. If you're aiming for six and a half minutes, having to do mental arithmetic or keep careful track is not fun ("12 ticks to reach a minute and then 11 ticks of half minutes, and let's hope it actually got them all"). In my direct experience, the best interfaces for blind users are ones that can have tactile/braille labels applied and ones with voice feedback, in that order.

yread 3y ago

Popcorn preset? Who uses that? What does it even do? Dont microwave popcorn bags just say 3 minutes at 600W?

sgerenser 3y ago
Popcorn presets either detect steam once the popcorn is almost done popping (then runs for N more seconds), or actually use a microphone to detect the time between pops (I think the latter is more accurate). If done well, it can work well. Apparently it’s often not done well because the bags of microwave popcorn almost always say “don’t use popcorn setting!”
- ghusbands 3y ago
  The problematic popcorn settings are the ones that don't have any such detection and instead ask you to enter a weight and they choose an amount of time based on that. It's very inaccurate and causes either many unpopped kernels or some burning.
vel0city 3y ago
3 minutes at 600W? My microwave is 1680W. What's the right conversion? Is this bag a little small, is this one a little large? My single button sensor has never made a bad batch yet.