5 ms·

Author here. Tbh I don't actually believe all the cons, these are things I was telling myself to stop writing. It doesn't mean I believe they're right, but thes

Author here. Tbh I don't actually believe all the cons, these are things I was telling myself to stop writing. It doesn't mean I believe they're right, but these were just excuses I was making to stop writing. The list of pros are the ones that were useful for me to continue writing on my blog :)

ozim 3y ago
Looks like a lot of people read first list, got triggered started writing comment and did not think about full scope of the text.
- lapcat 3y ago
  > Looks like a lot of people read first list, got triggered started writing comment and did not think about full scope of the text. In other words... nobody cares about your blog. ;-)
  - haswell 3y ago
    If they’re triggered and writing angrily, they care. They just care about it for the wrong reasons. Reasons that can be eliminated by adapting the structure of the content to a modern audience.
    - lapcat 3y ago
      > If they’re triggered and writing angrily, they care. They may care about the subject matter of the blog post, but they don't care about the blog post, which is just an excuse for them to rant about the subject matter. > Reasons that can be eliminated by adapting the structure of the content to a modern audience. c/modern/lazy
      - haswell 3y ago
        > they don't care about the blog post, which is just an excuse for them to rant about the subject matter This kind of framing/sweeping generalization doesn’t make sense to me. There will always be people who will rant for the sake of ranting, but this isn’t universal, nor should it be the base assumption about a reader/commentor. > c/modern/lazy This carries the problematic generalization further. The modern media environment has drastically impacted people’s attention span. There are plenty of critical things to be said about the effects of this trend, but painting this as just a matter of laziness misses the bigger picture. Especially important if you want to create content that encourages people to cultivate attention and stop consuming attention-destroying content. Writing for a “modern” audience isn’t about catering to lazy people, but recognizing what people are up against in an information landscape that increasingly churns out bad information, making it necessary as a reader to assess the content quickly enough to know if it’s time to move on, because there isn’t enough time or attention in a day to give every post a full read. I’m not saying lazy readers don’t exist, but that’s not why I think it’s useful to think about content structure.
        lapcat 3y ago
        My comment "In other words... nobody cares about your blog. ;-)" was intended to be joke, with the wink emoticon, riffing on the title of the blog post. It wasn't intended as a serious sweeping generalization. Nonetheless, many good jokes have a grain of truth. Such commenters who rant for the sake of ranting obviously do exist, as you admit, and they are pervasive. > making it necessary as a reader to assess the content quickly enough to know if it’s time to move on, because there isn’t enough time or attention in a day to give every post a full read. It's interesting that you said "move on" rather than "comment", which is precisely the distinction I discussed in another comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36746673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36746673 Moving on is fine. The problem is staying and commenting without reading carefully.
    - ozim 3y ago
      That is interesting take. But I still don’t understand how come people feel like it is worth to spend time writing comment on something they don’t have time to read through.
      - bjornasm 3y ago
        You don't understand how people rather want to read some short comments and share their thoughts than to spend a lot more time reading a long blogpost?
        ozim 3y ago
        Yes, blogpost we discuss here isn’t even that long. For any meaningful discussion there is context required. Writing out thoughts without context might be funny or might be silly but that is disrespectful to everyone.
      - haswell 3y ago
        I also don’t fully accept the premise that not reading is why people are commenting critically. Personally, I read the whole thing, kinda scratched my head about the framing of it all, and came here to find what apparently seemed like agreement with my reaction. It became more clear what the author was going for when he clarified, and in that light, the post makes more sense. But I think someone lacking that context or familiarity with the author’s style and taking the content a bit too literally at first (like me) is another source of the critical commentary. Things got a bit off track when this became a thread about people refusing to read, or lacking comprehension. From my perspective there are two ways to read it, and I think this pretty much guarantees some confusion.
- MichaelRo 3y ago
  Not really, it's a feature of modern times. A long long time ago, before the Internet and the wide availability of electronic content, I used to read books and would even send physical letters. Once I entered the corporate world and email, I had people telling me that I have to change my writing style. Pre-modern world and me included would use what I would call the "epistolary" style (long, detailed text). I was taught it by the literature I read or enforced in school by the style of writing I was expected to write. Essentially a bottom-up approach where you start with the premises and gradually build up your conclusion, presented at the end of the "novel". Well problem's in the modern world nobody has the time to read your novel. I think reformulating "Nobody cares about your blog" to "Nobody has time to read your novel" would be closer to the truth. It's not that people don't read novels anymore, it's that the quantity of content has increased 100x. Literally there's no time to go in depth over each and every wall of text you are confronted with. So better adjust your writing style to modernity and use a top-down approach. Start with the conclusion and gradually build up the premises that led you there. Some people might read the whole content if it captures their interest but 99% will just read your summary and skim through the high level part of your content (assuming you stick to the top-down, so it gradually breaks into more and more complex parts). I'd say there's nothing wrong with the approach and gotta keep up with the times we're living.
  - lapcat 3y ago
    > Some people might read the whole content if it captures their interest but 99% will just read your summary and skim through the high level part of your content If people don't want to read everything you wrote, that's not inherently a problem. The problem is that people want to comment on things they haven't read, and that's a problem the writer can't solve. Lazy, superficial commenters are a pox on all writing, and the internet has enabled them. It's a feature of modern times because the internet has given superficial, super lazy commenters a platform they never had before. Anyone in the world can sign up for a social media platform and start spewing text with practically no effort or ability.
    - beebeepka 3y ago
      This reads like a cheap shot at people don't have the patience to deal with walls of text that can be summarised in a couple of well constructed sentences. Long form speakers often do so to obfuscate the content. It's a hiding place. The only long form I read is fiction.
- jasonlotito 3y ago
  Lack of any comprehension. It’s amazing. It’s a good reminder that most people commenting here read the headline, and react, rather than put any thought into what was written. They believe that because they “read the comments first” or are posting here is indicative of their intelligence. Shameful.
romusha 3y ago
So basically, as the old saying goes, you were "merely pretending"?
Given_47 3y ago
The point about providing ur own perspective is what makes blogs so (sadly) refreshing. I’ve stumbled onto so many random blogs and read a post on a topic I’m already familiar with because I hope to find a different perspective on it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jimnotgym 3y ago
I got that from reading it. I enjoyed the article. Nobody cares about comments from people reading things too literally ;)
thomashabets2 3y ago
Yeah I sensed something like that. But I don't just think that the pros outweigh the cons, I think the cons are all wrong. :-)
haswell 3y ago
> these are things I was telling myself to stop writing I think some of the feedback here is because that’s not how you explain the cons in the post: > Here’s a list of why nobody cares about your blog While you do go on to tell people they shouldn’t care about these cons, I’d go a step further and say these aren’t even real things most people who encounter your blog will think. Your framing sets this up as a current of negative sentiment out there against which you must steel yourself to write. A different framing is that this negative sentiment primarily exists in your own mind (mine too), thus not a problem. I think there’s a meaningful difference between the two, especially if you’re not writing due to anxiety about reception. The overarching message is great. I just worry that your list kind of reifies the notion that those are real reasons.
- jasonlotito 3y ago
  Honestly, I think it’s the failing of the readers. It’s clear he doesn’t believe this list of cons, and rather, it’s illustrative of the things some people believe or say about writing a blog. These are all real things I’ve heard people say about creating. This is a perfectly acceptable style. This is a problem in comprehension. People aren’t thinking. “these aren’t even real things most people who encounter your blog will think” But these are real things real people think about a lot when they think about writing or creating and sharing it. Honestly, the lack of comprehension is a gentle reminder to me that HN isn’t any smarter than any other place. It just tends to lean toward topics I’m interested in, but the people making up the discussion aren’t necessarily smarter.
  - haswell 3y ago
    > Honestly, I think it’s the failing of the readers. I'd argue that it's a failing of the engagement-driven information economy. The Internet is full of posts with lists of hot takes that are completely literal. It is in this landscape that a reader finding a post like this must decide how to interpret what the reader is trying to say. > It’s clear he doesn’t believe this list of cons For the reasons outlined, this was not clear at all. It was clear that the author felt someone shouldn't care about these cons, but that is quite different than concluding that the cons aren't even worth believing. There are times that cons are true, and those cons are outweighed by the pros. There are times when the cons win. This is a time when the cons are false. Mentioning that would be helpful. This is my primary point. > But these are real things real people think about a lot when they think about writing or creating and sharing it. Yes, and my point was that the issue can be very easily solved by just framing it as such with almost zero change to the overall content. "None of these are true" vs. "You shouldn't care about these cons". It's a small change that completely shifts the meaning of the list and brings more readers onboard. > Honestly, the lack of comprehension... And let's say for sake of argument that the primary problem is one of comprehension. That implies a broader trend that requires corrective behaviors, and concluding that "that's just their problem" doesn't seem to be very useful for anyone involved either. If this is the new state of readership, authors have some choices to make. I deeply support the underlying message the author is trying to convey: write stuff, and don't listen to bad reasons for not writing! I don't want my comments here to be misconstrued otherwise.
analog31 3y ago
I think there are many good reasons for people to write, even if they're not at the cutting edge of a field, or doing something totally original: * Information that's derivative of cutting edge knowledge, but not worth the bother for the academic researchers to work on, especially in the area of turning it into practical things. * Stuff that can't be documented by the experts because they can't write, unless it's for an audience of fellow experts, or they feel no reason to. Virtually all technical documentation is impenetrable without supporting commentary or explanation, often written by non-experts. * Practical projects, that might have only one interested user (myself), but whose pieces might be of interest to others. This is most of my blogging. * Keeping old arts and obscure techniques alive. * Invitation for critique. Am I wrong? Show me. Make my day. So far as writing papers or giving interviews, some folks might feel that the "overhead" of doing those things does not justify the benefits. For instance I have no academic career to advance.

ozim 3y ago

Looks like a lot of people read first list, got triggered started writing comment and did not think about full scope of the text.

lapcat 3y ago
> Looks like a lot of people read first list, got triggered started writing comment and did not think about full scope of the text. In other words... nobody cares about your blog. ;-)
- haswell 3y ago
  If they’re triggered and writing angrily, they care. They just care about it for the wrong reasons. Reasons that can be eliminated by adapting the structure of the content to a modern audience.
  - lapcat 3y ago
    > If they’re triggered and writing angrily, they care. They may care about the subject matter of the blog post, but they don't care about the blog post, which is just an excuse for them to rant about the subject matter. > Reasons that can be eliminated by adapting the structure of the content to a modern audience. c/modern/lazy
    - haswell 3y ago
      > they don't care about the blog post, which is just an excuse for them to rant about the subject matter This kind of framing/sweeping generalization doesn’t make sense to me. There will always be people who will rant for the sake of ranting, but this isn’t universal, nor should it be the base assumption about a reader/commentor. > c/modern/lazy This carries the problematic generalization further. The modern media environment has drastically impacted people’s attention span. There are plenty of critical things to be said about the effects of this trend, but painting this as just a matter of laziness misses the bigger picture. Especially important if you want to create content that encourages people to cultivate attention and stop consuming attention-destroying content. Writing for a “modern” audience isn’t about catering to lazy people, but recognizing what people are up against in an information landscape that increasingly churns out bad information, making it necessary as a reader to assess the content quickly enough to know if it’s time to move on, because there isn’t enough time or attention in a day to give every post a full read. I’m not saying lazy readers don’t exist, but that’s not why I think it’s useful to think about content structure.
      - lapcat 3y ago
        My comment "In other words... nobody cares about your blog. ;-)" was intended to be joke, with the wink emoticon, riffing on the title of the blog post. It wasn't intended as a serious sweeping generalization. Nonetheless, many good jokes have a grain of truth. Such commenters who rant for the sake of ranting obviously do exist, as you admit, and they are pervasive. > making it necessary as a reader to assess the content quickly enough to know if it’s time to move on, because there isn’t enough time or attention in a day to give every post a full read. It's interesting that you said "move on" rather than "comment", which is precisely the distinction I discussed in another comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36746673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36746673 Moving on is fine. The problem is staying and commenting without reading carefully.
  - ozim 3y ago
    That is interesting take. But I still don’t understand how come people feel like it is worth to spend time writing comment on something they don’t have time to read through.
    - bjornasm 3y ago
      You don't understand how people rather want to read some short comments and share their thoughts than to spend a lot more time reading a long blogpost?
      - ozim 3y ago
        Yes, blogpost we discuss here isn’t even that long. For any meaningful discussion there is context required. Writing out thoughts without context might be funny or might be silly but that is disrespectful to everyone.
    - haswell 3y ago
      I also don’t fully accept the premise that not reading is why people are commenting critically. Personally, I read the whole thing, kinda scratched my head about the framing of it all, and came here to find what apparently seemed like agreement with my reaction. It became more clear what the author was going for when he clarified, and in that light, the post makes more sense. But I think someone lacking that context or familiarity with the author’s style and taking the content a bit too literally at first (like me) is another source of the critical commentary. Things got a bit off track when this became a thread about people refusing to read, or lacking comprehension. From my perspective there are two ways to read it, and I think this pretty much guarantees some confusion.
MichaelRo 3y ago
Not really, it's a feature of modern times. A long long time ago, before the Internet and the wide availability of electronic content, I used to read books and would even send physical letters. Once I entered the corporate world and email, I had people telling me that I have to change my writing style. Pre-modern world and me included would use what I would call the "epistolary" style (long, detailed text). I was taught it by the literature I read or enforced in school by the style of writing I was expected to write. Essentially a bottom-up approach where you start with the premises and gradually build up your conclusion, presented at the end of the "novel". Well problem's in the modern world nobody has the time to read your novel. I think reformulating "Nobody cares about your blog" to "Nobody has time to read your novel" would be closer to the truth. It's not that people don't read novels anymore, it's that the quantity of content has increased 100x. Literally there's no time to go in depth over each and every wall of text you are confronted with. So better adjust your writing style to modernity and use a top-down approach. Start with the conclusion and gradually build up the premises that led you there. Some people might read the whole content if it captures their interest but 99% will just read your summary and skim through the high level part of your content (assuming you stick to the top-down, so it gradually breaks into more and more complex parts). I'd say there's nothing wrong with the approach and gotta keep up with the times we're living.
- lapcat 3y ago
  > Some people might read the whole content if it captures their interest but 99% will just read your summary and skim through the high level part of your content If people don't want to read everything you wrote, that's not inherently a problem. The problem is that people want to comment on things they haven't read, and that's a problem the writer can't solve. Lazy, superficial commenters are a pox on all writing, and the internet has enabled them. It's a feature of modern times because the internet has given superficial, super lazy commenters a platform they never had before. Anyone in the world can sign up for a social media platform and start spewing text with practically no effort or ability.
  - beebeepka 3y ago
    This reads like a cheap shot at people don't have the patience to deal with walls of text that can be summarised in a couple of well constructed sentences. Long form speakers often do so to obfuscate the content. It's a hiding place. The only long form I read is fiction.
jasonlotito 3y ago
Lack of any comprehension. It’s amazing. It’s a good reminder that most people commenting here read the headline, and react, rather than put any thought into what was written. They believe that because they “read the comments first” or are posting here is indicative of their intelligence. Shameful.

romusha 3y ago

So basically, as the old saying goes, you were "merely pretending"?

Given_47 3y ago

The point about providing ur own perspective is what makes blogs so (sadly) refreshing. I’ve stumbled onto so many random blogs and read a post on a topic I’m already familiar with because I hope to find a different perspective on it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jimnotgym 3y ago

I got that from reading it. I enjoyed the article. Nobody cares about comments from people reading things too literally ;)

thomashabets2 3y ago

Yeah I sensed something like that. But I don't just think that the pros outweigh the cons, I think the cons are all wrong. :-)

haswell 3y ago

> these are things I was telling myself to stop writing I think some of the feedback here is because that’s not how you explain the cons in the post: > Here’s a list of why nobody cares about your blog While you do go on to tell people they shouldn’t care about these cons, I’d go a step further and say these aren’t even real things most people who encounter your blog will think. Your framing sets this up as a current of negative sentiment out there against which you must steel yourself to write. A different framing is that this negative sentiment primarily exists in your own mind (mine too), thus not a problem. I think there’s a meaningful difference between the two, especially if you’re not writing due to anxiety about reception. The overarching message is great. I just worry that your list kind of reifies the notion that those are real reasons.

jasonlotito 3y ago
Honestly, I think it’s the failing of the readers. It’s clear he doesn’t believe this list of cons, and rather, it’s illustrative of the things some people believe or say about writing a blog. These are all real things I’ve heard people say about creating. This is a perfectly acceptable style. This is a problem in comprehension. People aren’t thinking. “these aren’t even real things most people who encounter your blog will think” But these are real things real people think about a lot when they think about writing or creating and sharing it. Honestly, the lack of comprehension is a gentle reminder to me that HN isn’t any smarter than any other place. It just tends to lean toward topics I’m interested in, but the people making up the discussion aren’t necessarily smarter.
- haswell 3y ago
  > Honestly, I think it’s the failing of the readers. I'd argue that it's a failing of the engagement-driven information economy. The Internet is full of posts with lists of hot takes that are completely literal. It is in this landscape that a reader finding a post like this must decide how to interpret what the reader is trying to say. > It’s clear he doesn’t believe this list of cons For the reasons outlined, this was not clear at all. It was clear that the author felt someone shouldn't care about these cons, but that is quite different than concluding that the cons aren't even worth believing. There are times that cons are true, and those cons are outweighed by the pros. There are times when the cons win. This is a time when the cons are false. Mentioning that would be helpful. This is my primary point. > But these are real things real people think about a lot when they think about writing or creating and sharing it. Yes, and my point was that the issue can be very easily solved by just framing it as such with almost zero change to the overall content. "None of these are true" vs. "You shouldn't care about these cons". It's a small change that completely shifts the meaning of the list and brings more readers onboard. > Honestly, the lack of comprehension... And let's say for sake of argument that the primary problem is one of comprehension. That implies a broader trend that requires corrective behaviors, and concluding that "that's just their problem" doesn't seem to be very useful for anyone involved either. If this is the new state of readership, authors have some choices to make. I deeply support the underlying message the author is trying to convey: write stuff, and don't listen to bad reasons for not writing! I don't want my comments here to be misconstrued otherwise.

analog31 3y ago

I think there are many good reasons for people to write, even if they're not at the cutting edge of a field, or doing something totally original: * Information that's derivative of cutting edge knowledge, but not worth the bother for the academic researchers to work on, especially in the area of turning it into practical things. * Stuff that can't be documented by the experts because they can't write, unless it's for an audience of fellow experts, or they feel no reason to. Virtually all technical documentation is impenetrable without supporting commentary or explanation, often written by non-experts. * Practical projects, that might have only one interested user (myself), but whose pieces might be of interest to others. This is most of my blogging. * Keeping old arts and obscure techniques alive. * Invitation for critique. Am I wrong? Show me. Make my day. So far as writing papers or giving interviews, some folks might feel that the "overhead" of doing those things does not justify the benefits. For instance I have no academic career to advance.