4 ms·

That depends enormously on what 'efficient' means. They certainly save a lot of time so that's an efficiency. They do use less water for the same amount of wash

by jemmyw 3y ago

That depends enormously on what 'efficient' means. They certainly save a lot of time so that's an efficiency. They do use less water for the same amount of washing, so they are more efficient with water. The only problem with that is that, just with most efficiency gains, the result is more consumption. In this case, dirtying more dishes. So I would argue dishwashers are demonstrably more efficient than hand washing dishes. Whether that means better for the environment is an entirely different question that has to take into account manufacture and use.

paulcole 3y ago
> So I would argue dishwashers are demonstrably more efficient than hand washing dishes Yeah my argument is that this is nonsense. Just turn the tap off often when you’re scrubbing the dishes (use the water for rinsing) and it should be obvious that you’re using less water — particularly when you take into account the fact that a dishwasher uses 4 gallons of water no matter how many dishes are in it. Under ideal conditions perhaps a modern dishwasher comes out ahead, but again maybe the ideal Rambo bird-killing-machine cat is also capable of decimating local bird populations.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  I've measured my (previously owned dishwasher; don't have one at the moment), and compared it to handwashing in terms of water used. How did I measure it? I had the DW drain into a bucket. The DW won hands down. I also learnt to wash dishes without the water running when I was a kid. Yes, the proviso that you should only run it when it is full is important, but I assumed everyone knew that.
  - defrost 3y ago
    The other twist on water 'waste' is where does it go afterwards for recovery? Cities often have systems, we're in rural Australia and are water conscious- as far as dish and clothes washing go that's grey water discharge which goes onto a near house mulch pit for household rottables and garden waste, the water that reaches the pit bottom hits a crushed stone bed with slotted pipe that drains water to above the vegetable garden and fruit trees (between the leach drains ) where it moves through the soil making tomatoes, potatoes, figs, oranges, lemons, grapefruit, etc. No dishwasher, no tap running - but regardless of how much water we use in the kitchen none of that truly goes to waste, if we use more we just put less on the garden from the same source tanks (which are all level gauged).
    - 1over137 3y ago
      Does that filter all the microplastics from washed clothes?
      - defrost 3y ago
        Microplastics shed from synthetic fibre clothes probably stay in the mulch, crushed rock and sand and don't reach the roots of the vegetables and trees and don't feature in the runoff (from sub surface water travel) at the base of the slope. Mulch on garden with microplastics is likely ok as plants extract the minerals | elements they need. I'd have to sample and check. A great deal of our clothing, bedding, towels, etc is natural fibre in any case.
- travisporter 3y ago
  The average faucet puts out about 2 gallons per min. Even if i turn off the faucet between scrubbing it would take more than two mins of the faucet on for me. I do agree that it me use more dishes so there’s that.
  - uoaei 3y ago
    You turn the faucet on at full blast every time you open it? I let out enough to rinse, but you do most of the mixing of soap and water for rinsing mechanically rather than just trying to blast it away with a high-pressure water stream.
    - travisporter 3y ago
      Excellent point I don’t. But on the flip side I know I cannot use as little soap as a dishwasher since it’s down the drain
- jemmyw 3y ago
  I have always, and I'm sure most people at home do, filled the dishwasher up completely before turning it on. That's quite a substantial load of dishes each time, 2 meals worth + sundry in a 5 person household. The dishwasher I have says it uses 6 litres per wash on the normal automatic mode. That's just over 1.5 gallons, and even if a total lie and it uses twice as much that's still only 12 litres / 3 gallons. Where it probably falls down is where they have dishwashers in office kitchens where they don't fill it up and chuck it on anyway so they have their favourite coffee mug ready for the morning.

by jemmyw 3y ago

paulcole 3y ago

> So I would argue dishwashers are demonstrably more efficient than hand washing dishes Yeah my argument is that this is nonsense. Just turn the tap off often when you’re scrubbing the dishes (use the water for rinsing) and it should be obvious that you’re using less water — particularly when you take into account the fact that a dishwasher uses 4 gallons of water no matter how many dishes are in it. Under ideal conditions perhaps a modern dishwasher comes out ahead, but again maybe the ideal Rambo bird-killing-machine cat is also capable of decimating local bird populations.

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
I've measured my (previously owned dishwasher; don't have one at the moment), and compared it to handwashing in terms of water used. How did I measure it? I had the DW drain into a bucket. The DW won hands down. I also learnt to wash dishes without the water running when I was a kid. Yes, the proviso that you should only run it when it is full is important, but I assumed everyone knew that.
- defrost 3y ago
  The other twist on water 'waste' is where does it go afterwards for recovery? Cities often have systems, we're in rural Australia and are water conscious- as far as dish and clothes washing go that's grey water discharge which goes onto a near house mulch pit for household rottables and garden waste, the water that reaches the pit bottom hits a crushed stone bed with slotted pipe that drains water to above the vegetable garden and fruit trees (between the leach drains ) where it moves through the soil making tomatoes, potatoes, figs, oranges, lemons, grapefruit, etc. No dishwasher, no tap running - but regardless of how much water we use in the kitchen none of that truly goes to waste, if we use more we just put less on the garden from the same source tanks (which are all level gauged).
  - 1over137 3y ago
    Does that filter all the microplastics from washed clothes?
    - defrost 3y ago
      Microplastics shed from synthetic fibre clothes probably stay in the mulch, crushed rock and sand and don't reach the roots of the vegetables and trees and don't feature in the runoff (from sub surface water travel) at the base of the slope. Mulch on garden with microplastics is likely ok as plants extract the minerals | elements they need. I'd have to sample and check. A great deal of our clothing, bedding, towels, etc is natural fibre in any case.
travisporter 3y ago
The average faucet puts out about 2 gallons per min. Even if i turn off the faucet between scrubbing it would take more than two mins of the faucet on for me. I do agree that it me use more dishes so there’s that.
- uoaei 3y ago
  You turn the faucet on at full blast every time you open it? I let out enough to rinse, but you do most of the mixing of soap and water for rinsing mechanically rather than just trying to blast it away with a high-pressure water stream.
  - travisporter 3y ago
    Excellent point I don’t. But on the flip side I know I cannot use as little soap as a dishwasher since it’s down the drain
jemmyw 3y ago
I have always, and I'm sure most people at home do, filled the dishwasher up completely before turning it on. That's quite a substantial load of dishes each time, 2 meals worth + sundry in a 5 person household. The dishwasher I have says it uses 6 litres per wash on the normal automatic mode. That's just over 1.5 gallons, and even if a total lie and it uses twice as much that's still only 12 litres / 3 gallons. Where it probably falls down is where they have dishwashers in office kitchens where they don't fill it up and chuck it on anyway so they have their favourite coffee mug ready for the morning.