6 ms·

I'm a private pilot. This is basically correct. If your airport is small and you never get in trouble with ATC or have an emergency situation, you will probabl

I'm a private pilot. This is basically correct. If your airport is small and you never get in trouble with ATC or have an emergency situation, you will probably not get caught. However, if you do get caught, it is a criminal charge with (IIRC) up to $250,000 fine and 6 years prison time. Or worse, you overestimate your ability and die/kill people. I wouldn't take that risk. If you want to fly a lot, get a license. If you want to fly a little, make friends with a pilot. You can even get a student license with relatively few requirements, and fly solo (no passengers) during the day. --- That said, I do sympathize with people wanting to opt out of the FAA's draconian rules. (E.g. If you have been professionally diagnosed with ADHD, the FAA bans you from any pilot's license ever, even a student license. :/ Lovely)

chrisweekly 3y ago
> "E.g. If you have been professionally diagnosed with ADHD, the FAA bans you from any pilot's license ever, even a student license. :/" What?! That's incredible. If more people were trying to get their licenses I bet the ACLU would fix that nonsensical bigotry and embarrass the FAA in court.
- paulddraper 3y ago
  You have no idea how many professional pilots avoid seeking mental health treatment. Because it would literally destroy their career. Kinda scary actually.
  - operatingthetan 3y ago
    That's a huge perverse incentive. Doesn't make me feel safer!
    - godelski 3y ago
      Same is true for a lot of government jobs, especially things that require a security clearance. Ironically this makes people vulnerable to exactly what these institutions are most afraid of: blackmail.
- sonicshadow 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - godelski 3y ago
    > that could impact their ability to fly. This is the debatable part. I don't think people on their medications, properly dosed, would be impaired. It also depends how severe the issue is. The same is true for driving. All diseases are on some spectrum and having a binary classification doesn't account for the nuances of the situations. Just leave it up to the medical examiners, their licenses are already on the line.
  - pkilgore 3y ago
    This comment contributes nothing. There are multiple levels of licensing with multiple levels of medical clearances. Someone on controlled ADHD medication, diabetes, or high BMI is perfectly capable of managing risk of flying as a private pilot same as boating or driving. They probably shouldn't be airline transport pilots, but that's not really under discussion. It seems like your goal here is to start some sort of political fight. Please go elsewhere. Grown ups are talking.
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      FAA's regulations are draconian, but they are that way because they are written in blood. When shit goes south, it doesn't matter whether you're a private or commercial pilot. Your plane is coming down regardless, and worst case you might take some other people with you to the other side. More than anything, flying is a luxury compared to something like driving which is a practical necessity or sailing which carries far lower risks of destructive danger. Nobody needs to fly, so more stringent regulations are warranted for what is a very dangerous activity that must be handled with respect. "Diversity" has no place in aviation, either you can fly safely or you can't. People with conditions are presumed they can't, for very good reasons.
      - trevyn 3y ago
        Excellent second-grade analysis of the situation.
- userbinator 3y ago
  I think the FAA is trying to prevent things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525#Investigation_of_Lubitz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525#Invest... from happening. The investigation into Lubitz found he had been treated for suicidal tendencies prior to his training as a commercial pilot and had been temporarily denied a US pilot's licence because of these treatments for psychotic depression.
- techwizrd 3y ago
  Incredible is right because it's not true [0]. That said, the current system isn't perfect and doesn't incentivise pilots to disclose or appropriately manage their conditions. 0: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/dec_cons/disease_prot/adhd https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/dec_cons/disease_prot/adhd
godelski 3y ago
> E.g. If you have been professionally diagnosed with ADHD, the FAA bans you from any pilot's license ever, even a student license Not quite true. They just need you to be evaluated where you've been off medication for at least 90 days. But if you're on Adderall, you're shit out of luck. Which is pretty dumb since the medication resolves issues. Other dumb things that will/can prevent you from getting your license: AIDS, diabetes, obesity (BMI >35), anemia, depression, gender dysphoria (they more recently updated for trans, but hormones or surgery can make it difficult), color blindness (not that impactful these days, and there are many types of color blindnesses), and many more. Side note: I was working on my pilot's license before I went to grad school. No problems, despite a history of depression too. In grad school I got diagnosed and Adderall really made a big difference (even helping with my depression). So gotta make the choice of being able to fly or being able to do productive work which I'm passionate about. Private pilots are a dying breed, and the FAA is only doing things to accelerate this. https://pilot-protection-services.aopa.org/news/2015/september/30/what-is-attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-and-how-does-the-faa-look-at-this-condition https://pilot-protection-services.aopa.org/news/2015/septemb...
- srvmshr 3y ago
  Why discriminate against diabetes. Of the things listed, this is probably the most common one & a lifestyle disease. This can have a onset in mid-40s to 50s for some genetically predisposed people. Are they not allowed to fly then?
  - Kerb_ 3y ago
    Diabetic shock while flying would be pretty bad. They seem to do individualized assessments, it's not an instant removal. https://diabetes.org/tools-support/know-your-rights/discrimination/employment-discrimination/pilots-with-diabetes https://diabetes.org/tools-support/know-your-rights/discrimi...
    - godelski 3y ago
      This is the reason. Nuance is also common for some things on the list (e.g. HIV/ADHD but not all things, e.g. AIDS/Color blindness). But all these things are still lacking of a lot of nuance and things like diabetes has only recently been partially resolved due to large lobbying efforts of the ADA: https://diabetes.org/tools-support/know-your-rights/discrimination/employment-discrimination/pilots-with-diabetes https://diabetes.org/tools-support/know-your-rights/discrimi...
colanderman 3y ago
> If you have been professionally diagnosed with ADHD, the FAA bans you from any pilot's license ever, even a student license. I'm not sure this is literally true? https://adhdrollercoaster.org/adhd-news-and-research/faa-guidelines-on-adhd-no-rx-for-commercial-airline-pilots/ https://adhdrollercoaster.org/adhd-news-and-research/faa-gui... and https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/AI_ADHD_ADD.pdf https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/AI_ADHD_ADD.pdf seem to disagree, only that ADHD medication is a no-go. I definitely know someone who is a licensed private pilot and instructor who was diagnosed with ADHD when young and has taken medication for it. (I don't know whether he had to stop medication and be reevaluated to be licensed, presumably he did per the above link.)
- grepfru_it 3y ago
  It’s a massive uphill battle. Don’t get me wrong you can get a license it’s just a lot of work/money. If you have ADD don’t get diagnosed and get your license first.
ai_monkey 3y ago
When and where did you get your information? Because this is completely wrong. LSA's and gliders rely on self-certification for the very medical reasons you mentioned. In smaller aircraft where you don't carry passengers and don't fly in demanding circumstances (high speeds, altitudes, IFR, etc), the margin of safety for the general public is much wider. The FAA puts more trust in your own assessment of your medical condition's impact on your safety, since the main person affected by your ADM in such an aircraft is yourself. editing to add that this isn't speculation, I fly gliders.
- paulddraper 3y ago
  > this is completely wrong It's a little bit wrong. A drivers license-only sport license requires that you not have failed an aviation medical exam. [1] ADHD will cause you to fail a medical exam, and thereby prevent you from a sport license. But, yes, if you play your cards carefully (i.e. stay away from the doctor!), you can fly LSA/gliders. > In smaller aircraft where you don't carry passengers and don't fly in demanding circumstances (high speeds, altitudes, IFR, etc), the margin of safety for the general public is much wider. FWIW, these aren't really differences between what you can fly with sport vs private pilot license. * high-speed (200 horsepower) requires a separate high-performance endorsement, beyond private * high altitude (18,000 MSL) requires a separate instrument rating, beyond private * IFR requires a separate instrument rating, beyond private * sport license and private license both permit carrying a passenger There's remarkably little difference between, say, a Flight Design CTLSi and a Cessna 150, even though the FAA classifies the former as a LSA but not the latter. In fact, the CTLSi is significantly faster :shrug: [1] https://www.flyingmag.com/what-if-i-fail/ https://www.flyingmag.com/what-if-i-fail/
  - ai_monkey 3y ago
    I think the difference here is that you can get those ratings with a PPL with no extra medical requirements. IIRC some countries actually require you to get a higher class medical if you want to get an IFR endorsement for your PPL. I think what we're seeing with BasicMed is a step in the right direction to further relax the medical rules for the vast majority of PPL operations (i.e. not flying a cirrus jet at FL300, or a caravan with 10 friends). My main point though was that it is absolutely not the case that FAA bans you from flying if you have a condition they don't like or take meds they don't like. If you don't need a medical certificate (glider with or without a DL, LSA with a DL and no denial on the most recent medical application, among others) and can in good faith attest that your specific medical circumstances (the impact of which you are presumably deeply familiar with) are not a hazard, then you are allowed to hold a license and exercise its privileges. Disclaimer: This interpretation is based on reliable sources but I'm not a lawyer. Don't take my word for it, read the FARs and relevant legal publications or ask a lawyer if you think any of this applies to you.
gymbeaux 3y ago
There are also discovery flights where you can fly with a licensed instructor and get to actually fly the plane after takeoff and before landing.
- paulddraper 3y ago
  If you're with a pilot (even if they aren't an instructor), you can do whatever.....including taking off and landing. Whether the pilot lets you do that is obviously up to them, but as long as there is a license pilot in command, the FAA doesn't care. > If you want to fly a little, make friends with a pilot.

chrisweekly 3y ago

> "E.g. If you have been professionally diagnosed with ADHD, the FAA bans you from any pilot's license ever, even a student license. :/" What?! That's incredible. If more people were trying to get their licenses I bet the ACLU would fix that nonsensical bigotry and embarrass the FAA in court.

paulddraper 3y ago
You have no idea how many professional pilots avoid seeking mental health treatment. Because it would literally destroy their career. Kinda scary actually.
- operatingthetan 3y ago
  That's a huge perverse incentive. Doesn't make me feel safer!
  - godelski 3y ago
    Same is true for a lot of government jobs, especially things that require a security clearance. Ironically this makes people vulnerable to exactly what these institutions are most afraid of: blackmail.
sonicshadow 3y ago
[flagged]
- godelski 3y ago
  > that could impact their ability to fly. This is the debatable part. I don't think people on their medications, properly dosed, would be impaired. It also depends how severe the issue is. The same is true for driving. All diseases are on some spectrum and having a binary classification doesn't account for the nuances of the situations. Just leave it up to the medical examiners, their licenses are already on the line.
- pkilgore 3y ago
  This comment contributes nothing. There are multiple levels of licensing with multiple levels of medical clearances. Someone on controlled ADHD medication, diabetes, or high BMI is perfectly capable of managing risk of flying as a private pilot same as boating or driving. They probably shouldn't be airline transport pilots, but that's not really under discussion. It seems like your goal here is to start some sort of political fight. Please go elsewhere. Grown ups are talking.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    FAA's regulations are draconian, but they are that way because they are written in blood. When shit goes south, it doesn't matter whether you're a private or commercial pilot. Your plane is coming down regardless, and worst case you might take some other people with you to the other side. More than anything, flying is a luxury compared to something like driving which is a practical necessity or sailing which carries far lower risks of destructive danger. Nobody needs to fly, so more stringent regulations are warranted for what is a very dangerous activity that must be handled with respect. "Diversity" has no place in aviation, either you can fly safely or you can't. People with conditions are presumed they can't, for very good reasons.
    - trevyn 3y ago
      Excellent second-grade analysis of the situation.
userbinator 3y ago
I think the FAA is trying to prevent things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525#Investigation_of_Lubitz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525#Invest... from happening. The investigation into Lubitz found he had been treated for suicidal tendencies prior to his training as a commercial pilot and had been temporarily denied a US pilot's licence because of these treatments for psychotic depression.
techwizrd 3y ago
Incredible is right because it's not true [0]. That said, the current system isn't perfect and doesn't incentivise pilots to disclose or appropriately manage their conditions. 0: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/dec_cons/disease_prot/adhd https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/dec_cons/disease_prot/adhd

godelski 3y ago

> E.g. If you have been professionally diagnosed with ADHD, the FAA bans you from any pilot's license ever, even a student license Not quite true. They just need you to be evaluated where you've been off medication for at least 90 days. But if you're on Adderall, you're shit out of luck. Which is pretty dumb since the medication resolves issues. Other dumb things that will/can prevent you from getting your license: AIDS, diabetes, obesity (BMI >35), anemia, depression, gender dysphoria (they more recently updated for trans, but hormones or surgery can make it difficult), color blindness (not that impactful these days, and there are many types of color blindnesses), and many more. Side note: I was working on my pilot's license before I went to grad school. No problems, despite a history of depression too. In grad school I got diagnosed and Adderall really made a big difference (even helping with my depression). So gotta make the choice of being able to fly or being able to do productive work which I'm passionate about. Private pilots are a dying breed, and the FAA is only doing things to accelerate this. https://pilot-protection-services.aopa.org/news/2015/september/30/what-is-attention-deficit-hyperactivity-disorder-and-how-does-the-faa-look-at-this-condition https://pilot-protection-services.aopa.org/news/2015/septemb...

srvmshr 3y ago
Why discriminate against diabetes. Of the things listed, this is probably the most common one & a lifestyle disease. This can have a onset in mid-40s to 50s for some genetically predisposed people. Are they not allowed to fly then?
- Kerb_ 3y ago
  Diabetic shock while flying would be pretty bad. They seem to do individualized assessments, it's not an instant removal. https://diabetes.org/tools-support/know-your-rights/discrimination/employment-discrimination/pilots-with-diabetes https://diabetes.org/tools-support/know-your-rights/discrimi...
  - godelski 3y ago
    This is the reason. Nuance is also common for some things on the list (e.g. HIV/ADHD but not all things, e.g. AIDS/Color blindness). But all these things are still lacking of a lot of nuance and things like diabetes has only recently been partially resolved due to large lobbying efforts of the ADA: https://diabetes.org/tools-support/know-your-rights/discrimination/employment-discrimination/pilots-with-diabetes https://diabetes.org/tools-support/know-your-rights/discrimi...

colanderman 3y ago

> If you have been professionally diagnosed with ADHD, the FAA bans you from any pilot's license ever, even a student license. I'm not sure this is literally true? https://adhdrollercoaster.org/adhd-news-and-research/faa-guidelines-on-adhd-no-rx-for-commercial-airline-pilots/ https://adhdrollercoaster.org/adhd-news-and-research/faa-gui... and https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/AI_ADHD_ADD.pdf https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/media/AI_ADHD_ADD.pdf seem to disagree, only that ADHD medication is a no-go. I definitely know someone who is a licensed private pilot and instructor who was diagnosed with ADHD when young and has taken medication for it. (I don't know whether he had to stop medication and be reevaluated to be licensed, presumably he did per the above link.)

grepfru_it 3y ago
It’s a massive uphill battle. Don’t get me wrong you can get a license it’s just a lot of work/money. If you have ADD don’t get diagnosed and get your license first.

ai_monkey 3y ago

When and where did you get your information? Because this is completely wrong. LSA's and gliders rely on self-certification for the very medical reasons you mentioned. In smaller aircraft where you don't carry passengers and don't fly in demanding circumstances (high speeds, altitudes, IFR, etc), the margin of safety for the general public is much wider. The FAA puts more trust in your own assessment of your medical condition's impact on your safety, since the main person affected by your ADM in such an aircraft is yourself. editing to add that this isn't speculation, I fly gliders.

paulddraper 3y ago
> this is completely wrong It's a little bit wrong. A drivers license-only sport license requires that you not have failed an aviation medical exam. [1] ADHD will cause you to fail a medical exam, and thereby prevent you from a sport license. But, yes, if you play your cards carefully (i.e. stay away from the doctor!), you can fly LSA/gliders. > In smaller aircraft where you don't carry passengers and don't fly in demanding circumstances (high speeds, altitudes, IFR, etc), the margin of safety for the general public is much wider. FWIW, these aren't really differences between what you can fly with sport vs private pilot license. * high-speed (200 horsepower) requires a separate high-performance endorsement, beyond private * high altitude (18,000 MSL) requires a separate instrument rating, beyond private * IFR requires a separate instrument rating, beyond private * sport license and private license both permit carrying a passenger There's remarkably little difference between, say, a Flight Design CTLSi and a Cessna 150, even though the FAA classifies the former as a LSA but not the latter. In fact, the CTLSi is significantly faster :shrug: [1] https://www.flyingmag.com/what-if-i-fail/ https://www.flyingmag.com/what-if-i-fail/
- ai_monkey 3y ago
  I think the difference here is that you can get those ratings with a PPL with no extra medical requirements. IIRC some countries actually require you to get a higher class medical if you want to get an IFR endorsement for your PPL. I think what we're seeing with BasicMed is a step in the right direction to further relax the medical rules for the vast majority of PPL operations (i.e. not flying a cirrus jet at FL300, or a caravan with 10 friends). My main point though was that it is absolutely not the case that FAA bans you from flying if you have a condition they don't like or take meds they don't like. If you don't need a medical certificate (glider with or without a DL, LSA with a DL and no denial on the most recent medical application, among others) and can in good faith attest that your specific medical circumstances (the impact of which you are presumably deeply familiar with) are not a hazard, then you are allowed to hold a license and exercise its privileges. Disclaimer: This interpretation is based on reliable sources but I'm not a lawyer. Don't take my word for it, read the FARs and relevant legal publications or ask a lawyer if you think any of this applies to you.

gymbeaux 3y ago

There are also discovery flights where you can fly with a licensed instructor and get to actually fly the plane after takeoff and before landing.

paulddraper 3y ago
If you're with a pilot (even if they aren't an instructor), you can do whatever.....including taking off and landing. Whether the pilot lets you do that is obviously up to them, but as long as there is a license pilot in command, the FAA doesn't care. > If you want to fly a little, make friends with a pilot.