6 ms·
For what it's worth, I worked in Canada from 2005 to 2012 as a mechanical engineer and had to use faxes at least once a month for ordering from some old school
by johnwalkr 3y ago
For what it's worth, I worked in Canada from 2005 to 2012 as a mechanical engineer and had to use faxes at least once a month for ordering from some old school suppliers in Canada and USA (for things like steel bars and rods). This was at multiple companies. I lived in Japan from 2012-2022, and had to send a fax precisely once, for my first apartment contract. I did it from a 7-11.
I know medical and legal places still use them, but that's true in North America too. I did a quick check of some suppliers of mechanical parts in USA (McMaster-Carr) Canada (Grainger) and Japan (Misumi) since that is my background and they all still accept orders by fax.
But, a difference is outside of conservative industries[1], you still see fax machines a lot more in Japan because it's more recent than in North America that they were ubiquitous. You will occasionally see a dusty one in a home or office, and many mom-and-pop restaurants have an unused one in a corner because the online reservation services used to send faxes to restaurants. I think you had the option of receiving a fax or email back in day, but now you get (and probably require) a dedicated tablet or interface to your POS. I didn't see a received fax in a tray anywhere since about 2015.
Another difference is internal processes in companies and government in Japan have historically required stamps for each approving person, and it was natural to extend the processes to fax, at least as a temporary measure until the physical document made its rounds.
It's also worth noting that pretty much every company in Japan switched to docusign or similar during covid, and government agencies are also required to switch soon.
Overall I think faxes persist a bit longer in Japan, but at this point only in the same industries that use them in other countries too. It's a thing that exists but I would hardly call it a "love affair". As a normal person going about your life there's more reminders that fax machines exist, but the actual usage is low and rapidly decreasing.
[1] There's a reason conservative industries still use faxes. Physical documents and signatures are the benchmarks for legal documents and faxes are still physical documents with signatures that can be produced from a filing cabinet, and whatever your legal predicament is you can be sure there is case law to blame the other party based on documents and signatures. And there's no universal/international, non-proprietary, widely-adopted standard to replace documents and signatures. If you're a doctor sending a prescription from one hospital to another (and both hospitals have strict requirements for record keeping), sending a fax still makes sense.
- MichaelZuo 3y agoHow did the Japanese government justify standardizing on a privately controlled system, Docusign?
- johnwalkr 3y agoI apologize for the long comment, this is a topic I have been thanking about. Docusign wasn't required and there is no one standard. required or adopted. Requirements for storing digital documents were added, requirements to have physical documents were relaxed in many but not all areas, and government agencies were told to allow digital signing by a certain date but how well this was achieved varies. Meanwhile an e-id called "my number"[1] was introduced in 2015 but it's probably not going to solve the problem of making a standardized system anytime soon. I personally think that in a democratic country it is in everyone's best interest to adopt an e-id with good privacy rules, separated from immigration status etc. I live in Europe now in a country that has a very convenient and well-accepted e-id system. I can do any government process online. But it's privatized and essentially depends on you having a bank account in good standing. On balance I'd rather just have this be an accountable public service. [1] Everyone is required to have it and everyone is assigned a "my number" which is similar to an SSN. It offers a lot of benefits like doing tax stuff online or ordering documents from a convenience store instead of waiting in line at city hall. But it's so far not required and a very unpopular idea to require everyone to get a physical my number card which in theory could be a good way to prove identity when digitally signing documents, and extended to some standard system for recording contracts.
- MichaelZuo 3y agoThanks for the info, though I'm surprised, doesn't every household already have a household register along with an assigned number in Japan? Is assigning additional ID numbers to each individual in a household really that controversial?
- johnwalkr 3y agoEveryone has a my number, it's needed to do your taxes for example. But the government wants everyone to get a plastic my number ID card and use it for multiple services including replacing your health insurance card. But using one card for various services is seen as a privacy risk. I don't remember the details but it doesn't seem legal to force people to get one and use it, so they've been offering incentives like coupons for stores. Meanwhile, from what I passively understand from news, there's been issues like information sent to the wrong person so it's difficult politically to push for it more. I personally didn't get the card because for foreign residents it expires when your permission to stay expires and I didn't want the hassle of getting a new one each time. Now I live in Europe and I have a similar digital ID and it's quite nice to be able to do virtually any procedure online, although once you apply, stuff that took 30 minutes or 1 week in Japan takes 3 months here.