5 ms·

I've had a job all my life but with the proceeds from that job I've bought a house I rent to a local association, and I also have a retirement plan (as pretty m

by vasco 3y ago

I've had a job all my life but with the proceeds from that job I've bought a house I rent to a local association, and I also have a retirement plan (as pretty much everyone else), so I'm a shareholder in almost all the biggest megacorps through the indexes my retirement account buys. So I'm both? Who do I fight for?

immibis 3y ago
Well, I suppose you get to decide whether you want to fight for the slaves or the slave owners. I will remind you that fighting for the slave owners never led to anything good.
Eisenstein 3y ago
This is the problem with trying to fit a political doctrine written more than 100 years ago by an academic who spent most of his time in libraries into modern life. There is a reason 'it was a good idea so I wrote it all down, thought of everything, and then forced everyone to do it' has never worked.
- PartiallyTyped 3y ago
  You don't need to follow everything to a T to grasp the fact that 99.99% of us exist to feed the capitalists, the ruling class, to keep them satisfied.
  - Eisenstein 3y ago
    I'm sorry you think that your life is only meaningful in that it provides labor to capitalists.
    - PartiallyTyped 3y ago
      Do you mind pointing out where that was stated or implied? Anything and everything I do is to satisfy my own curiosity and desires, but that's only because I got lucky. Everyone who didn't get lucky, well, they have to slave away in jobs that may not be fulfilling, or are menial, etc; and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
      - Eisenstein 3y ago
        Other people's lives are meaningless then, but not yours. Got it. PS: Have you ever considered how paternalistic your view is?
        PartiallyTyped 3y ago
        I have never claimed nor implied that their lives are meaningless (point where). On the contrary, because everyone's life is meaningful and important, they shouldn't have to slave away or do scutwork just to survive. This is what I am advocating for. I want people to live, to be free, to enjoy the same things I am. This is literally the opposite of paternalistic. I am also not a tankie if that's what you concluded from my first remark.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        > 99.99% of us exist to feed the capitalists I'm honestly curious why you wrote this and if you can explain what it means, because to me it means 'people who labor for others are wasting their lives as slaves and we need to remedy this'. What have I misread?
        PartiallyTyped 3y ago
        The desire to survive is a fundamental instinct of all animals, and thus you'd do almost anything to survive. Effectively we are slaves of our own biology and wiring. Thus, due to resource allocation, most of us have to or had to work in order just to survive. Our utility and thus QoL is measured in how the surrounding system values us. In a capitalist society that is visible through our salaries and our income as provided by other parties. In a marxist-leninist-like society, your value depends on your connections and how much you get done for the rest of the ruling party. Thus, because we need to survive, we are forced into working for the system in any of the different ways it materializes. When we are no longer useful to the system as productive members, we are forced into becoming useful for it. Rooflessness is very much a solvable problem, but the roofless' purpose within the system to exist as examples for avoidance. "Stay in life or you will end up like them". "Be productive", "work hard in this rat race", "keep grinding", or you will end up like them. When we are old and no longer productive, we are sent to hospice care, which costs a lot of money, it involves very expensive healthcare, and thus any money we have accumulated go to our care and back to the system, recycled to be used by consumers, and recycled all over again. Our kin and their love for us gets exploited, we become money sinks. What for? We spend 40 years working to do what, live hopefully 20 years later, old frail and weak? To become a money pit? So that our loved ones and their love for us gets exploited? --- I am laboring for others, but that doesn't mean I see myself as a slave. I am very lucky. I get paid a relatively excellent salary, and I get to work a nice and interesting job that satisfies my curiosity. But very few people are as lucky as I am. Most people are not living and thriving, they are surviving, and I don't want that. It's not the fact that they labor, it's the fact that they need to do that in the first place.
int_19h 3y ago
Where does most of your income come from?
- vasco 3y ago
  From work, but I hope at some point it switches around. So I'll be a good person until then, and after that I'll become a bad person it sounds like
  - immibis 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - throw47474777j 3y ago
      Or not, and these aren’t really analogies and in fact are just gibberish.
  - 8note 3y ago
    You could already be a bad person, but for now, you're being taken advantage of about as much as you're taking advantage of others. I think squatting land to make people rent from you to be able to live is already pretty bad, so you could easily already be a bad person, but the concepts of individual ownership over public goods is the really problem,
    - hellojesus 3y ago
      Are you really suggesting that land is a public good? If it was, how would anyone ever develop it? How could I keep anyone away from my family at night?
8note 3y ago
What happens when you stop working?

by vasco 3y ago

immibis 3y ago

Well, I suppose you get to decide whether you want to fight for the slaves or the slave owners. I will remind you that fighting for the slave owners never led to anything good.

Eisenstein 3y ago

This is the problem with trying to fit a political doctrine written more than 100 years ago by an academic who spent most of his time in libraries into modern life. There is a reason 'it was a good idea so I wrote it all down, thought of everything, and then forced everyone to do it' has never worked.

PartiallyTyped 3y ago
You don't need to follow everything to a T to grasp the fact that 99.99% of us exist to feed the capitalists, the ruling class, to keep them satisfied.
- Eisenstein 3y ago
  I'm sorry you think that your life is only meaningful in that it provides labor to capitalists.
  - PartiallyTyped 3y ago
    Do you mind pointing out where that was stated or implied? Anything and everything I do is to satisfy my own curiosity and desires, but that's only because I got lucky. Everyone who didn't get lucky, well, they have to slave away in jobs that may not be fulfilling, or are menial, etc; and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
    - Eisenstein 3y ago
      Other people's lives are meaningless then, but not yours. Got it. PS: Have you ever considered how paternalistic your view is?
      - PartiallyTyped 3y ago
        I have never claimed nor implied that their lives are meaningless (point where). On the contrary, because everyone's life is meaningful and important, they shouldn't have to slave away or do scutwork just to survive. This is what I am advocating for. I want people to live, to be free, to enjoy the same things I am. This is literally the opposite of paternalistic. I am also not a tankie if that's what you concluded from my first remark.
        Eisenstein 3y ago
        > 99.99% of us exist to feed the capitalists I'm honestly curious why you wrote this and if you can explain what it means, because to me it means 'people who labor for others are wasting their lives as slaves and we need to remedy this'. What have I misread?
        PartiallyTyped 3y ago
        The desire to survive is a fundamental instinct of all animals, and thus you'd do almost anything to survive. Effectively we are slaves of our own biology and wiring. Thus, due to resource allocation, most of us have to or had to work in order just to survive. Our utility and thus QoL is measured in how the surrounding system values us. In a capitalist society that is visible through our salaries and our income as provided by other parties. In a marxist-leninist-like society, your value depends on your connections and how much you get done for the rest of the ruling party. Thus, because we need to survive, we are forced into working for the system in any of the different ways it materializes. When we are no longer useful to the system as productive members, we are forced into becoming useful for it. Rooflessness is very much a solvable problem, but the roofless' purpose within the system to exist as examples for avoidance. "Stay in life or you will end up like them". "Be productive", "work hard in this rat race", "keep grinding", or you will end up like them. When we are old and no longer productive, we are sent to hospice care, which costs a lot of money, it involves very expensive healthcare, and thus any money we have accumulated go to our care and back to the system, recycled to be used by consumers, and recycled all over again. Our kin and their love for us gets exploited, we become money sinks. What for? We spend 40 years working to do what, live hopefully 20 years later, old frail and weak? To become a money pit? So that our loved ones and their love for us gets exploited? --- I am laboring for others, but that doesn't mean I see myself as a slave. I am very lucky. I get paid a relatively excellent salary, and I get to work a nice and interesting job that satisfies my curiosity. But very few people are as lucky as I am. Most people are not living and thriving, they are surviving, and I don't want that. It's not the fact that they labor, it's the fact that they need to do that in the first place.

int_19h 3y ago

Where does most of your income come from?

vasco 3y ago
From work, but I hope at some point it switches around. So I'll be a good person until then, and after that I'll become a bad person it sounds like
- immibis 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - throw47474777j 3y ago
    Or not, and these aren’t really analogies and in fact are just gibberish.
- 8note 3y ago
  You could already be a bad person, but for now, you're being taken advantage of about as much as you're taking advantage of others. I think squatting land to make people rent from you to be able to live is already pretty bad, so you could easily already be a bad person, but the concepts of individual ownership over public goods is the really problem,
  - hellojesus 3y ago
    Are you really suggesting that land is a public good? If it was, how would anyone ever develop it? How could I keep anyone away from my family at night?

8note 3y ago

What happens when you stop working?