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When you say those words people think you are a building-burning store-looting far left hooligan, they call you a commie and shove their head into the ground li
by PartiallyTyped 3y ago
When you say those words people think you are a building-burning store-looting far left hooligan, they call you a commie and shove their head into the ground like an ostrich, as if the last N or so years have not been an endless class war.
- vasco 3y agoI don't even know what my class is! Where do I check? How do you know what class you are? I want to know who to help!
- immibis 3y agoDo you get money by working (most people) or do you get money by making other people who work give you theirs (e.g. landlord, CEO, banker (not teller), politician)?
- vasco 3y agoI've had a job all my life but with the proceeds from that job I've bought a house I rent to a local association, and I also have a retirement plan (as pretty much everyone else), so I'm a shareholder in almost all the biggest megacorps through the indexes my retirement account buys. So I'm both? Who do I fight for?
- immibis 3y agoWell, I suppose you get to decide whether you want to fight for the slaves or the slave owners. I will remind you that fighting for the slave owners never led to anything good.
- Eisenstein 3y agoThis is the problem with trying to fit a political doctrine written more than 100 years ago by an academic who spent most of his time in libraries into modern life. There is a reason 'it was a good idea so I wrote it all down, thought of everything, and then forced everyone to do it' has never worked.
- PartiallyTyped 3y agoYou don't need to follow everything to a T to grasp the fact that 99.99% of us exist to feed the capitalists, the ruling class, to keep them satisfied.
- Eisenstein 3y agoI'm sorry you think that your life is only meaningful in that it provides labor to capitalists.
- PartiallyTyped 3y agoDo you mind pointing out where that was stated or implied? Anything and everything I do is to satisfy my own curiosity and desires, but that's only because I got lucky. Everyone who didn't get lucky, well, they have to slave away in jobs that may not be fulfilling, or are menial, etc; and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
- Eisenstein 3y agoOther people's lives are meaningless then, but not yours. Got it. PS: Have you ever considered how paternalistic your view is?
- PartiallyTyped 3y agoI have never claimed nor implied that their lives are meaningless (point where). On the contrary, because everyone's life is meaningful and important, they shouldn't have to slave away or do scutwork just to survive. This is what I am advocating for. I want people to live, to be free, to enjoy the same things I am. This is literally the opposite of paternalistic. I am also not a tankie if that's what you concluded from my first remark.
- Eisenstein 3y ago> 99.99% of us exist to feed the capitalists I'm honestly curious why you wrote this and if you can explain what it means, because to me it means 'people who labor for others are wasting their lives as slaves and we need to remedy this'. What have I misread?
- int_19h 3y agoWhere does most of your income come from?
- vasco 3y agoFrom work, but I hope at some point it switches around. So I'll be a good person until then, and after that I'll become a bad person it sounds like
- immibis 3y ago[flagged]
- throw47474777j 3y agoOr not, and these aren’t really analogies and in fact are just gibberish.
- 8note 3y agoYou could already be a bad person, but for now, you're being taken advantage of about as much as you're taking advantage of others. I think squatting land to make people rent from you to be able to live is already pretty bad, so you could easily already be a bad person, but the concepts of individual ownership over public goods is the really problem,
- hellojesus 3y agoAre you really suggesting that land is a public good? If it was, how would anyone ever develop it? How could I keep anyone away from my family at night?
- 8note 3y agoWhat happens when you stop working?
- PartiallyTyped 3y agoUnless you are born into generational wealth, you are by construction a Prole. If you need to or had to work for a living until you could afford not to, then you are a Prole. Whether you choose to "betray" this class - and fight in support of the people who make the rules, the slave owners, those who play god without permission - is a different thing.
- vasco 3y agoOnly dummies think in classes. People are people.
- immibis 3y ago[flagged]
- throw47474777j 3y agoA smart person who systematically mis-categorizes the world is worse than an idiot acting at random.
- PartiallyTyped 3y agoA class defines a set of people with some shared characteristic. In this case, this class contains about > 99.99% of the humans that have ever existed.
- hkt 3y agoSome people find this helpfully confusing: it allows them to remain in denial of the obviousness of how horrendous the ruling class is.
- dontlaugh 3y agoThe obvious response is to own it and be an actual commie. Join a revolutionary party, organise in a trade union, set up mutual aid, learn self defence, etc.
- PartiallyTyped 3y agoI am all for this, the problem is that that behaviour on their end shuts down any discussion and mutual aid becomes harder.
- dontlaugh 3y agoYou don’t have to lead with it necessarily. I don’t, but I don’t hide it either. People pay attention to their material interests. In most cases, you can get through to working class people despite ideology. Can’t win everyone over either and that’s ok too.
- int_19h 3y agoThe problem is that most large left-wing movements tend to be about highly centralized socialism that is at best soft authoritarian (and in practice tends to quickly devolve into something much worse). I understand why - once you take away the cudgel from the people who currently have it, using it yourself to quickly solve problems is just too tempting. But it does mean that many (most?) of those parties are not a viable solution.
- dontlaugh 3y agoClass struggle doesn’t end in one stroke. When the working class wins state power over the capitalist class, the former doesn’t stop existing. The cudgel is to keep internal and external capitalists from counter revolution. Ultimately, results matter. My country started semi feudal and it was under socialism that it industrialised, electrified, developed universal health care, built homes for every working family, etc. Sadly the coup in 89 ended that, but it doesn’t have to have been perfect to have been good.
- 3y ago
- DaSHacka 3y agoWho is 'they' in this context? Even borderline schizo far-right conservatives on the vast majority of sites seem to agree, at least in part, that the class war plays some part.