5 ms·

Here [1][2] are a couple decent interviews with him on this topic as well. I have to wonder if it is too-little-too-late for these discussions. Has the damage

Here [1][2] are a couple decent interviews with him on this topic as well. I have to wonder if it is too-little-too-late for these discussions. Has the damage already been done and are peoples heels already dug in? [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_o3nZHzCwA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_o3nZHzCwA [video][4 mins][bill maher] [2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpqreZlmHGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpqreZlmHGU [video][8 mins][cnn]

bhawks 3y ago
It is definitely too late for his $250,000 short position to pay out, but he still might be able to capitalize on his book project. There has already been a ton of damage done: 9 million jobs lost, 8 million home foreclosures, $20 trillion in household wealth lost[1]. Oh wait that was the 2008 financial crisis. Well at least with our modern and trustworthy financial system we held folks to account. Exactly 1 person went to jail.[2]. Well because our leaders are accountable to the people, we replaced them with new people that will act in our interest going forward. Just kidding they're all still in positions of power - Yellen is the Treasury secretary now. [3]. The real damage is coming from the status quo financial system that protects its own interests long before it cares about the needs of individuals. That is the problem defenders of the status quo need to take on if they really want to invalidate the crypto thesis. [1] - https://www.investopedia.com/news/10-years-later-lessons-financial-crisis/ https://www.investopedia.com/news/10-years-later-lessons-fin... [2] - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wall-streets-bankers-stayed-out-of-jail/399368/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wal... [3] - https://www.investopedia.com/insights/major-players-2008-financial-crisis-and-where-they-are-now/ https://www.investopedia.com/insights/major-players-2008-fin...
BaseballPhysics 3y ago
I'm confused, what damage? Dug in about what?
- jurynulifcation 3y ago
  The damage to ordinary people. The damage to the crypto ecosystem. The damage inflicted by huge players in the crypto ecosystem, on all parties involved. I am pretty solidly dug in against crypto now. I have not seen it used for anything besides scamming. I believe, due to the incentives at play, people championing a cryptocurrency future can not be trusted anymore than a degenerate gambler asking you to invest it all in his patented gambling strategy. Other people, the degenerate gamblers in question, are solidly dug in for the matter of their own profits- necessarily at the expense of others. This is the side championing cryptocurrency. Cryptocurrency enthusiasts are doomed to forever be damaged by their own wreckless stupidity. They will be damaged every time they receive a hard and necessary lesson about why our financial systems have certain properties and structures. Then they will demand the cost of that lesson be externalized onto the lesser-enfranchised.
  - BaseballPhysics 3y ago
    No argument here, I just didn't understand the comment, I still don't see a clarification from the OP so I remain confused.
  - pfisch 3y ago
    Why do you think crypto enthusiasts are net negative on crypto? It is a zero sum game so there are obviously winners, just like the stock market. So what hard lesson do you think the winners are learning exactly?
    - jurynulifcation 3y ago
      The stock market is not zero sum. Liquidity is provided so an enterprise can generate value. Thus a dollar put into the stock market generates value exceeding a dollar, creating more value in the world. Therefore the stock market is positive sum. Cryptocurrency currently does not have a way to generate value outside of illicit activities. There are very few supply chains you can leverage using cryptocurrency to generate anything new: it's either information products (like Axie Infinity or Earth2 or any scam) or illegal products. Its high-visibility, no-trust nature makes it unsuitable for practical daily use. I would not use an immutable, permanent, public ledger for any purchase, let alone for stuff I purchase normally and legally. The concept is laughable. It might be pseudoynmous, but such a high-fidelity and lossless record will be used for future entity resolution. (And also, as Ethereum proved with the hack of the DAO, such promises of "permanency" and "immutability" is couched in the concept of network effects and operative ownership, at least as far as any utility is concerned). And the crypto space keeps learning hard lessons. Like, for example, what "trustless" actually means. Lots of scams based on trust in the space. Those are two different meanings of the word "trust," which I and many technical people can distinguish, but non-specialists can not. They are, inevitably, the crowd that has historically lost the most in the crypto space and will continue to keep losing. Because they have a natural counterparty, the predators and scammers in the space. Now let's talk about the hard lessons the specialists keep learning. They keep learning what "trustless" means. The collapse of TerraLuna, Celsius, Tether, and SBF proves that nobody in the space has any clue what they're doing nor the ramifications of organizing people at scale. Vitalik Buterin was likewise also revealed as a no-talent hack when he hard-forked Ethereum after getting taken to the fucking washers during The DAO hack. On top of all the people who learn why laws are built with an understanding that ambiguity is natural and inescapable. Arbitrariness is both a feature and a bug in natural law. Anyone who has ever been taken to the washers by someone exploiting a bug in a smart contract has learned a hard lesson about subjecting assets to algorithmic vicissitudes. And the scammers in the space are learning hard lessons about what it means for a ledger to be permanent, immutable, and public. As entity resolutions methods get better, the same data remains perfectly amenable to novel methods. The whole thing is a farce, from the tech to the social aspects.

bhawks 3y ago

It is definitely too late for his $250,000 short position to pay out, but he still might be able to capitalize on his book project. There has already been a ton of damage done: 9 million jobs lost, 8 million home foreclosures, $20 trillion in household wealth lost[1]. Oh wait that was the 2008 financial crisis. Well at least with our modern and trustworthy financial system we held folks to account. Exactly 1 person went to jail.[2]. Well because our leaders are accountable to the people, we replaced them with new people that will act in our interest going forward. Just kidding they're all still in positions of power - Yellen is the Treasury secretary now. [3]. The real damage is coming from the status quo financial system that protects its own interests long before it cares about the needs of individuals. That is the problem defenders of the status quo need to take on if they really want to invalidate the crypto thesis. [1] - https://www.investopedia.com/news/10-years-later-lessons-financial-crisis/ https://www.investopedia.com/news/10-years-later-lessons-fin... [2] - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wall-streets-bankers-stayed-out-of-jail/399368/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/how-wal... [3] - https://www.investopedia.com/insights/major-players-2008-financial-crisis-and-where-they-are-now/ https://www.investopedia.com/insights/major-players-2008-fin...

BaseballPhysics 3y ago

I'm confused, what damage? Dug in about what?

jurynulifcation 3y ago
The damage to ordinary people. The damage to the crypto ecosystem. The damage inflicted by huge players in the crypto ecosystem, on all parties involved. I am pretty solidly dug in against crypto now. I have not seen it used for anything besides scamming. I believe, due to the incentives at play, people championing a cryptocurrency future can not be trusted anymore than a degenerate gambler asking you to invest it all in his patented gambling strategy. Other people, the degenerate gamblers in question, are solidly dug in for the matter of their own profits- necessarily at the expense of others. This is the side championing cryptocurrency. Cryptocurrency enthusiasts are doomed to forever be damaged by their own wreckless stupidity. They will be damaged every time they receive a hard and necessary lesson about why our financial systems have certain properties and structures. Then they will demand the cost of that lesson be externalized onto the lesser-enfranchised.
- BaseballPhysics 3y ago
  No argument here, I just didn't understand the comment, I still don't see a clarification from the OP so I remain confused.
- pfisch 3y ago
  Why do you think crypto enthusiasts are net negative on crypto? It is a zero sum game so there are obviously winners, just like the stock market. So what hard lesson do you think the winners are learning exactly?
  - jurynulifcation 3y ago
    The stock market is not zero sum. Liquidity is provided so an enterprise can generate value. Thus a dollar put into the stock market generates value exceeding a dollar, creating more value in the world. Therefore the stock market is positive sum. Cryptocurrency currently does not have a way to generate value outside of illicit activities. There are very few supply chains you can leverage using cryptocurrency to generate anything new: it's either information products (like Axie Infinity or Earth2 or any scam) or illegal products. Its high-visibility, no-trust nature makes it unsuitable for practical daily use. I would not use an immutable, permanent, public ledger for any purchase, let alone for stuff I purchase normally and legally. The concept is laughable. It might be pseudoynmous, but such a high-fidelity and lossless record will be used for future entity resolution. (And also, as Ethereum proved with the hack of the DAO, such promises of "permanency" and "immutability" is couched in the concept of network effects and operative ownership, at least as far as any utility is concerned). And the crypto space keeps learning hard lessons. Like, for example, what "trustless" actually means. Lots of scams based on trust in the space. Those are two different meanings of the word "trust," which I and many technical people can distinguish, but non-specialists can not. They are, inevitably, the crowd that has historically lost the most in the crypto space and will continue to keep losing. Because they have a natural counterparty, the predators and scammers in the space. Now let's talk about the hard lessons the specialists keep learning. They keep learning what "trustless" means. The collapse of TerraLuna, Celsius, Tether, and SBF proves that nobody in the space has any clue what they're doing nor the ramifications of organizing people at scale. Vitalik Buterin was likewise also revealed as a no-talent hack when he hard-forked Ethereum after getting taken to the fucking washers during The DAO hack. On top of all the people who learn why laws are built with an understanding that ambiguity is natural and inescapable. Arbitrariness is both a feature and a bug in natural law. Anyone who has ever been taken to the washers by someone exploiting a bug in a smart contract has learned a hard lesson about subjecting assets to algorithmic vicissitudes. And the scammers in the space are learning hard lessons about what it means for a ledger to be permanent, immutable, and public. As entity resolutions methods get better, the same data remains perfectly amenable to novel methods. The whole thing is a farce, from the tech to the social aspects.