7 ms·

Isn’t this the same logic the crypto bulls said during their mania?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
dang 3y ago
"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36734710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36734710.
CPLX 3y ago
The difference is crypto is useless and AI is useful. That’s a pretty important difference.
- dang 3y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into repetitive flamewar hell. Nothing interesting is going to come out of repeating this argument for the n-thousandth time. Worse, when discussions cease to be interesting, they turn nasty. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- rvz 3y ago
  > The difference is crypto is useless and AI is useful. Is that why Stripe, TicketMaster, Moneygram, Checkout.com, TransferGo, VISA, etc and many other companies continue to use it? > That’s a pretty important difference. Nope. The important difference is that crypto has energy efficient alternative methods of consensus available today such as proof-of-stake, byzantine fault tolerance (BFT), etc and even a former PoW blockchain (Ethereum) cut their emissions by 99.99% [0] by switching to a proof-of-stake consensus method. For crypto it is possible to switch to greener methods. AI (Deep Learning) continues to destroy the planet since it has no efficient alternative methods available for training, fine-tuning and inference. This means their methods waste tons of resources, water and electricity. [1] [2] It is a serious issue in the field after decades of its existence all to produce unexplainable black-box AI models which cannot reason and have to be retrained, fine-tuned again once it gets confused by a single pixel or regurgitates nonsense output. The AI hype is another grift that the VCs are taking advantage of just like they did with thousands of crypto companies. The reality is, 90% of these AI / crypto companies will fail and the remaining 10% will still be around that are useful. [0] https://consensys.net/blog/press-release/ethereum-blockchain-eliminates-99-99-of-its-carbon-footprint-overnight-after-a-successful-merge-according-to-new-report/ https://consensys.net/blog/press-release/ethereum-blockchain... [1] https://gizmodo.com/chatgpt-ai-water-185000-gallons-training-nuclear-1850324249 https://gizmodo.com/chatgpt-ai-water-185000-gallons-training... [2] https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/chatgpt-data-centre-water-consumption-b2318972.html https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/chatgpt-data-centre-water...
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Is that why Stripe, TicketMaster, Moneygram, Checkout.com, TransferGo, VISA, etc and many other companies continue to use it? “Use” is inaccurate. Accept and immediately sell. It persists in being a pot of unsophisticated money, so yes, it will be accepted.
    - rvz 3y ago
      > “Use” is inaccurate. Nope. Inaccurate to you. They would NOT use it if it was "useless". The truth is, they continue to use crypto in their services.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > would NOT use it if it was "useless" Of course they would. It’s useless, not worthless. If it were useful they’d actually use it.
        rvz 3y ago
        > If it were useful they’d actually use it. It is being used and businesses are using it in their products today. Companies like Moneygram would not use Stellar if it was useless for them and their customers and would instead announce that they are shutting it down after trialling it. They seem to have seen utility in it for their use-case. The same can be said for the other companies I mentioned. Again, they are using it and that is the truth.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Companies like Moneygram would not use Stellar if it was useless for them Useless, not worthless. I happen to be familiar with that case. It’s great for sales. Useless for performance. (It might become useful one day.) Hence, marginal-enough adoption and a lot of marketing. A couple years ago I counselled a friend in banking to do something with Ripple. It helped him win deals with crypto firms, and likely helped their wealth managers, too. Worthful. But useless.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

dang 3y ago

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36734710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36734710.

CPLX 3y ago

The difference is crypto is useless and AI is useful. That’s a pretty important difference.

dang 3y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into repetitive flamewar hell. Nothing interesting is going to come out of repeating this argument for the n-thousandth time. Worse, when discussions cease to be interesting, they turn nasty. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
rvz 3y ago
> The difference is crypto is useless and AI is useful. Is that why Stripe, TicketMaster, Moneygram, Checkout.com, TransferGo, VISA, etc and many other companies continue to use it? > That’s a pretty important difference. Nope. The important difference is that crypto has energy efficient alternative methods of consensus available today such as proof-of-stake, byzantine fault tolerance (BFT), etc and even a former PoW blockchain (Ethereum) cut their emissions by 99.99% [0] by switching to a proof-of-stake consensus method. For crypto it is possible to switch to greener methods. AI (Deep Learning) continues to destroy the planet since it has no efficient alternative methods available for training, fine-tuning and inference. This means their methods waste tons of resources, water and electricity. [1] [2] It is a serious issue in the field after decades of its existence all to produce unexplainable black-box AI models which cannot reason and have to be retrained, fine-tuned again once it gets confused by a single pixel or regurgitates nonsense output. The AI hype is another grift that the VCs are taking advantage of just like they did with thousands of crypto companies. The reality is, 90% of these AI / crypto companies will fail and the remaining 10% will still be around that are useful. [0] https://consensys.net/blog/press-release/ethereum-blockchain-eliminates-99-99-of-its-carbon-footprint-overnight-after-a-successful-merge-according-to-new-report/ https://consensys.net/blog/press-release/ethereum-blockchain... [1] https://gizmodo.com/chatgpt-ai-water-185000-gallons-training-nuclear-1850324249 https://gizmodo.com/chatgpt-ai-water-185000-gallons-training... [2] https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/chatgpt-data-centre-water-consumption-b2318972.html https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/chatgpt-data-centre-water...
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Is that why Stripe, TicketMaster, Moneygram, Checkout.com, TransferGo, VISA, etc and many other companies continue to use it? “Use” is inaccurate. Accept and immediately sell. It persists in being a pot of unsophisticated money, so yes, it will be accepted.
  - rvz 3y ago
    > “Use” is inaccurate. Nope. Inaccurate to you. They would NOT use it if it was "useless". The truth is, they continue to use crypto in their services.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > would NOT use it if it was "useless" Of course they would. It’s useless, not worthless. If it were useful they’d actually use it.
      - rvz 3y ago
        > If it were useful they’d actually use it. It is being used and businesses are using it in their products today. Companies like Moneygram would not use Stellar if it was useless for them and their customers and would instead announce that they are shutting it down after trialling it. They seem to have seen utility in it for their use-case. The same can be said for the other companies I mentioned. Again, they are using it and that is the truth.
        JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > Companies like Moneygram would not use Stellar if it was useless for them Useless, not worthless. I happen to be familiar with that case. It’s great for sales. Useless for performance. (It might become useful one day.) Hence, marginal-enough adoption and a lot of marketing. A couple years ago I counselled a friend in banking to do something with Ripple. It helped him win deals with crypto firms, and likely helped their wealth managers, too. Worthful. But useless.