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> When driving AI has been produced that can provably outperform me in the rain, in ice and snow, and on the track, I'll consider stepping aside. That day hasn'

> When driving AI has been produced that can provably outperform me in the rain, in ice and snow, and on the track, I'll consider stepping aside. That day hasn't arrived and isn't likely to any time soon. This is a different argument from the one in the article. You are arguing that you will outperform the AI and therefore should remain the driver. And you want proof to change your mind. Both are reasonable and I agree. The author isn't demanding proof that it is statistically better before switching. They object to giving up control and view that as a moral imperative, "no matter how “safe” the computerized features are."

forgetfreeman 3y ago
True, which doesn't invalidate the author's point. I'm merely adding a second set of considerations to the discussion. I think it's worth drilling down a little harder on the author's point though. They correctly note that there are no life-or-death systems that are wholly computerized with no human supervision. To me that speaks rather strongly to either a lack of awareness or lack of ethics on the part of drive AI advocates, as they're cheerleading something the military, aerospace, and medical industries have rejected on merit.
- bruce511 3y ago
  Most industries don't have a million deaths a year as incentive. For most industries zero deaths is the norm, so clearly computers have to be at least that good. Frankly we're so collectively bad at driving that we'd be an order of magnitude better if the computers only killed 100 000 a year. In over 100 years of driving humans have, at best, gotten worse. We continue to kill despite cars being better and safer. On the other hand 100 years of improvement to self-driving cars will (I predict) drop those deaths to under 1000.
  - Dah00n 3y ago
    How have we gotten worse? Deaths have plummeted.
  - forgetfreeman 3y ago
    You're attributing to operator error what is more likely caused by poor vehicle design, incomplete understanding of crash mechanics, and immature material science and manufacturing techniques. As early as the late 90s you could still buy a car that would force-feed you the steering column in a head-on collision.
    - bruce511 3y ago
      I feel operator error (drunk driving, disregard of road rules, speed limits,signage, deteriorating vision) and so on are the cause of most road deaths. Referring to the effects after a collision, and not the cause of the collision itself, is valid, but secondary.

forgetfreeman 3y ago

True, which doesn't invalidate the author's point. I'm merely adding a second set of considerations to the discussion. I think it's worth drilling down a little harder on the author's point though. They correctly note that there are no life-or-death systems that are wholly computerized with no human supervision. To me that speaks rather strongly to either a lack of awareness or lack of ethics on the part of drive AI advocates, as they're cheerleading something the military, aerospace, and medical industries have rejected on merit.

bruce511 3y ago
Most industries don't have a million deaths a year as incentive. For most industries zero deaths is the norm, so clearly computers have to be at least that good. Frankly we're so collectively bad at driving that we'd be an order of magnitude better if the computers only killed 100 000 a year. In over 100 years of driving humans have, at best, gotten worse. We continue to kill despite cars being better and safer. On the other hand 100 years of improvement to self-driving cars will (I predict) drop those deaths to under 1000.
- Dah00n 3y ago
  How have we gotten worse? Deaths have plummeted.
- forgetfreeman 3y ago
  You're attributing to operator error what is more likely caused by poor vehicle design, incomplete understanding of crash mechanics, and immature material science and manufacturing techniques. As early as the late 90s you could still buy a car that would force-feed you the steering column in a head-on collision.
  - bruce511 3y ago
    I feel operator error (drunk driving, disregard of road rules, speed limits,signage, deteriorating vision) and so on are the cause of most road deaths. Referring to the effects after a collision, and not the cause of the collision itself, is valid, but secondary.