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I've spent a decent amount of time in Singapore, where forget biking - if you're quick you can rock most of the way across the city state on foot. It's really

by blq10 3y ago

I've spent a decent amount of time in Singapore, where forget biking - if you're quick you can rock most of the way across the city state on foot. It's really cool, but Singapore isn't exactly a model for the world. Similarly - you should consider that Copenhagens all bike infrastructure both supports and is supported by the society around it, and a lot more would have to change than just the surface level things that you find good to make it happen.

Eisenstein 3y ago
> Similarly - you should consider that Copenhagens all bike infrastructure both supports and is supported by the society around it, and a lot more would have to change than just the surface level things that you find good to make it happen. So let's start doing that and maybe our kids will have awesome cities.
- blq10 3y ago
  Those changes are not ones that would be politically popular in the same groups that are demanding urbanism. You need transit to be safe and clean so you get ridership from people who are middle class and up, and urban living to be a safe, clean, desirable experience. This is very challenging, because the combination of increased policing and social programs needed to get there would not be plausible under either Democrat or Republican administrations.
com 3y ago
The transitions in the Dutch cities that were triggered in the 60s (safer biking routes mostly through grade separation and traffic calming retrofits) really began to bear fruit in the 1980s. I’ve been visiting Copenhagen long enough to see the same transition over a couple of decades there too. Start now, and even in US urban areas you’ll see the payoff in the next couple of decades, which is an absurdly short timeframe for urban planning outcomes. Biking shouldn’t be only for those wearing lycra!
modriano 3y ago
Yeah, I figure it would take at least 10-15 years to significantly increase the number of daily bike trips in a city (like in NYC, where there were ~170k daily bike trips in 2005 up to ~510k in 2018 [0]). The most magical part of Copenhagen was that its bike infrastructure was so incredibly attainable. Over ~30 years, they built ~350km of curbed off bike paths, ~25km of on-street bike paths, and put out consistent bike traffic light signals [1]. None of the things were hard, and roads have to get redone every 10-20 years anyway, so it's super easy to start updating a city. And it doesn't just make the city more pleasant to live it, it also saves many lives and adds years to biker's lives. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_New_York_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_New_York_City [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_Copenhagen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_Copenhagen

by blq10 3y ago

Eisenstein 3y ago

> Similarly - you should consider that Copenhagens all bike infrastructure both supports and is supported by the society around it, and a lot more would have to change than just the surface level things that you find good to make it happen. So let's start doing that and maybe our kids will have awesome cities.

blq10 3y ago
Those changes are not ones that would be politically popular in the same groups that are demanding urbanism. You need transit to be safe and clean so you get ridership from people who are middle class and up, and urban living to be a safe, clean, desirable experience. This is very challenging, because the combination of increased policing and social programs needed to get there would not be plausible under either Democrat or Republican administrations.

com 3y ago

The transitions in the Dutch cities that were triggered in the 60s (safer biking routes mostly through grade separation and traffic calming retrofits) really began to bear fruit in the 1980s. I’ve been visiting Copenhagen long enough to see the same transition over a couple of decades there too. Start now, and even in US urban areas you’ll see the payoff in the next couple of decades, which is an absurdly short timeframe for urban planning outcomes. Biking shouldn’t be only for those wearing lycra!

modriano 3y ago

Yeah, I figure it would take at least 10-15 years to significantly increase the number of daily bike trips in a city (like in NYC, where there were ~170k daily bike trips in 2005 up to ~510k in 2018 [0]). The most magical part of Copenhagen was that its bike infrastructure was so incredibly attainable. Over ~30 years, they built ~350km of curbed off bike paths, ~25km of on-street bike paths, and put out consistent bike traffic light signals [1]. None of the things were hard, and roads have to get redone every 10-20 years anyway, so it's super easy to start updating a city. And it doesn't just make the city more pleasant to live it, it also saves many lives and adds years to biker's lives. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_New_York_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_New_York_City [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_Copenhagen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_Copenhagen