6 ms·

I thought this was some sort of parody or joke - it sounds like some sort of Nigerian Prince scam pitch - but from your responses you are either genius at playi

I thought this was some sort of parody or joke - it sounds like some sort of Nigerian Prince scam pitch - but from your responses you are either genius at playing the whole thing straight or you are seriously out your depth and literally risking your life for no good reason. First off, saying that you have an idea to "improve their [Cartels] profit margins" by itself is enough to fall foul of the US DEA. Even if you are not in the US, the DEA has plenty of official and unofficial routes to target you and make life unbearably difficult or extradite you to the US where they can really mess you about. Fentanyl is primarily sourced from China and is knowingly brought in by cartels - it's not an accident it's in drugs and killing people and both China and the cartels are well aware of that and don't care. You're talking about people who torture indiscriminately and dump decapitated bodies in play parks to 'send messages' over minor issues like someone being on the wrong street that they consider their turf. You're not going to get a "zoom call" with them and you're not going to be able to set up any sort of mutually beneficial business relationship.

csears 3y ago
Nope, not a joke. Currently more of a thought experiment that could turn into a startup if it really seems viable. I'm in the US and I would actually be very interested in chatting with the DEA about my idea. If it turns out there is no legal way to move ahead with my idea, I won't pursue it further. As I said, I'm not even sure what kind of lawyer I could contact to get advice about this kind of thing. Saul Goodman? I'm aware that the fentanyl is added on purpose, but I don't think they want to add so much that it kills their customers. Last year there was some discussion of legalizing cocaine production in Columbia. I think the plan was eventually rejected, but it seems like people are seriously considering creative solutions.
- DonHopkins 3y ago
  I'm going to take a shot in the dark here, but I bet you're a huge Ayn Rand fan, aren't you?
- raincom 3y ago
  Be careful dealing with federal agents and federal agencies. They can get you for "lying to federal agents". Always have a lawyer next to you, so that this lawyer can take notes, thereby preventing you from being charged under "trumped up charges". I don't know why you are exploring this area, unless you want to spend some time in some federal penitentiary.
  - csears 3y ago
    Good advice. I know there have been situations where federal agencies have turned out to be "the bad guys", but I guess I'm optimistic that they are generally smart, well intentioned, and interested in some of the same outcomes that I'm talking about. As to why I'm exploring this, it's just a topic I've been thinking about lately. My daughter is starting college in the fall and they've had a lot of deaths over the last few years from fentanyl in pot. I plan to send her with a bunch of fentanyl test strips. If she ends up using them for herself or friends or other random college kids, it could very realistically save a life. Depending on how that goes, I'm also looking at a program to get fentanyl test strips to college kids for free on a larger scale.
    - ss1996 3y ago
      Fyi, Fentanyl strips are not full proof. This is because the amount of Fentanyl mixed is so small, there is high likelihood that no Fentanyl is picked up in the tested sample. In other words, high chance of false negatives. Test kits + narcan on hand is the best way to be safe.
      - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
        most test kits properly instruct you on this, but you can dissolve your entire dose, or the entire batch, in water, test that, then either consume like that or let the water evaporate in other words, testing a portion doesn't consume that portion, so you can literally test and then consume the same dose stay safe
      - csears 3y ago
        That's good to know. I've only done a little initial research around this. I ordered some test strips from a manufacture called MD-Bio (https://mdbio.com https://mdbio.com). I'll be sure to review all their instructions and safety info. Out of curiosity, are you saying that a Fentanyl level can be so low that it's undetectable by the test strips, but still high enough to kill someone?
- xcdzvyn 3y ago
  > If it turns out there is no legal way to move ahead with my idea, No, there is no legal way to "move ahead" with abetting drug cartels.
  - badpun 3y ago
    I always wonder where's the legal boundary of abetting. If I sell a cartel member a pack of chewing gum at a gas station, I'm probably not abetting. But what if I'm a book store owner, I know the customer is a chemist for the cartel, and I sell him a chemistry book? Is that criminal? Why/why not?
    - toyg 3y ago
      The Law is never perfect. Who the judge is, who the jury is, how they woke up on a given day, etc etc, can often be the difference between innocence and guilt, in the eyes of the system. Book owner "looks shifty", smokes pot recreationally, is known by prostitutes? Guilty. Book owner wears tweed, went to Harvard, is well-liked in book-clubs? Innocent.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - ksherlock 3y ago
      https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R43769.pdf https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R43769.pdf -- Accomplices, Aiding and Abetting, and the Like: An Overview of 18 U.S.C. § 2 Conviction under Section 2(a) requires that a defendant embrace the crime of another and consciously do something to contribute to its success. Although its elements are variously described, it is often said that, “[i]n order to aid and abet another to commit a crime it is necessary [1] that a defendant in some sort associate himself with the venture, [2] that he participate in it as in something that he wishes to bring about, [3]that he seek by his action to make it succeed,” and [4] that someone commits the offense. Satisfying only one of these elements is not enough. Thus, presence at the commission of a crime or close association with the perpetrator does not constitute aiding and abetting, without more. Yet, a defendant’s level of participation may be relatively minimal and need not advance every element of the crime. As for seeking to make it succeed, the defendant must intend the commission of the underlying offense, and that intent requires that he be aware beforehand of the scope of the offense in order to permit him to disassociate himself. Thus, the defendant must know that the offense is afoot before it occurs if he is to be convicted of aiding and abetting. -- So... it depends? If someone walks into your bookstore and says, "Hey, I want to cook up some meth" and you say "I know a great chemistry book but i'll have to special order it for you" that starts to look like association to me. But buying a book off the shelf, ehh, that's why you have books on the shelf. Guns are used in crimes. Cars are used in crimes. How often do you hear about car salesmen being arrested for aiding a bank robbery? Or gun salesman for a mass shooting?
- Traubenfuchs 3y ago
  If you decide at any point not to go ahead, please make your ideas and research public.
  - csears 3y ago
    I will be making the ideas public shortly. No research yet. Stay tuned and thanks for the encouragement.

csears 3y ago

Nope, not a joke. Currently more of a thought experiment that could turn into a startup if it really seems viable. I'm in the US and I would actually be very interested in chatting with the DEA about my idea. If it turns out there is no legal way to move ahead with my idea, I won't pursue it further. As I said, I'm not even sure what kind of lawyer I could contact to get advice about this kind of thing. Saul Goodman? I'm aware that the fentanyl is added on purpose, but I don't think they want to add so much that it kills their customers. Last year there was some discussion of legalizing cocaine production in Columbia. I think the plan was eventually rejected, but it seems like people are seriously considering creative solutions.

DonHopkins 3y ago
I'm going to take a shot in the dark here, but I bet you're a huge Ayn Rand fan, aren't you?
raincom 3y ago
Be careful dealing with federal agents and federal agencies. They can get you for "lying to federal agents". Always have a lawyer next to you, so that this lawyer can take notes, thereby preventing you from being charged under "trumped up charges". I don't know why you are exploring this area, unless you want to spend some time in some federal penitentiary.
- csears 3y ago
  Good advice. I know there have been situations where federal agencies have turned out to be "the bad guys", but I guess I'm optimistic that they are generally smart, well intentioned, and interested in some of the same outcomes that I'm talking about. As to why I'm exploring this, it's just a topic I've been thinking about lately. My daughter is starting college in the fall and they've had a lot of deaths over the last few years from fentanyl in pot. I plan to send her with a bunch of fentanyl test strips. If she ends up using them for herself or friends or other random college kids, it could very realistically save a life. Depending on how that goes, I'm also looking at a program to get fentanyl test strips to college kids for free on a larger scale.
  - ss1996 3y ago
    Fyi, Fentanyl strips are not full proof. This is because the amount of Fentanyl mixed is so small, there is high likelihood that no Fentanyl is picked up in the tested sample. In other words, high chance of false negatives. Test kits + narcan on hand is the best way to be safe.
    - ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
      most test kits properly instruct you on this, but you can dissolve your entire dose, or the entire batch, in water, test that, then either consume like that or let the water evaporate in other words, testing a portion doesn't consume that portion, so you can literally test and then consume the same dose stay safe
    - csears 3y ago
      That's good to know. I've only done a little initial research around this. I ordered some test strips from a manufacture called MD-Bio (https://mdbio.com https://mdbio.com). I'll be sure to review all their instructions and safety info. Out of curiosity, are you saying that a Fentanyl level can be so low that it's undetectable by the test strips, but still high enough to kill someone?
xcdzvyn 3y ago
> If it turns out there is no legal way to move ahead with my idea, No, there is no legal way to "move ahead" with abetting drug cartels.
- badpun 3y ago
  I always wonder where's the legal boundary of abetting. If I sell a cartel member a pack of chewing gum at a gas station, I'm probably not abetting. But what if I'm a book store owner, I know the customer is a chemist for the cartel, and I sell him a chemistry book? Is that criminal? Why/why not?
  - toyg 3y ago
    The Law is never perfect. Who the judge is, who the jury is, how they woke up on a given day, etc etc, can often be the difference between innocence and guilt, in the eyes of the system. Book owner "looks shifty", smokes pot recreationally, is known by prostitutes? Guilty. Book owner wears tweed, went to Harvard, is well-liked in book-clubs? Innocent.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - ksherlock 3y ago
    https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R43769.pdf https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R43769.pdf -- Accomplices, Aiding and Abetting, and the Like: An Overview of 18 U.S.C. § 2 Conviction under Section 2(a) requires that a defendant embrace the crime of another and consciously do something to contribute to its success. Although its elements are variously described, it is often said that, “[i]n order to aid and abet another to commit a crime it is necessary [1] that a defendant in some sort associate himself with the venture, [2] that he participate in it as in something that he wishes to bring about, [3]that he seek by his action to make it succeed,” and [4] that someone commits the offense. Satisfying only one of these elements is not enough. Thus, presence at the commission of a crime or close association with the perpetrator does not constitute aiding and abetting, without more. Yet, a defendant’s level of participation may be relatively minimal and need not advance every element of the crime. As for seeking to make it succeed, the defendant must intend the commission of the underlying offense, and that intent requires that he be aware beforehand of the scope of the offense in order to permit him to disassociate himself. Thus, the defendant must know that the offense is afoot before it occurs if he is to be convicted of aiding and abetting. -- So... it depends? If someone walks into your bookstore and says, "Hey, I want to cook up some meth" and you say "I know a great chemistry book but i'll have to special order it for you" that starts to look like association to me. But buying a book off the shelf, ehh, that's why you have books on the shelf. Guns are used in crimes. Cars are used in crimes. How often do you hear about car salesmen being arrested for aiding a bank robbery? Or gun salesman for a mass shooting?
Traubenfuchs 3y ago
If you decide at any point not to go ahead, please make your ideas and research public.
- csears 3y ago
  I will be making the ideas public shortly. No research yet. Stay tuned and thanks for the encouragement.