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Depending where someone put a cone on my car i would possibly just run them over or drive off unsafely if i felt that it was an attempt to rob me or steal my ca

Depending where someone put a cone on my car i would possibly just run them over or drive off unsafely if i felt that it was an attempt to rob me or steal my car. Having things like that categorized differently makes sense because it’s caused by humans being dicks. But maybe you are right and that is the new reality we live in where none of us get to advance because of a small group of angry and stupid people.

m00x 3y ago
While it is an incredibly shitty thing to do, that does not give you the right to murder someone.
- naniwaduni 3y ago
  Putting large vision-blocking objects on people's cars while they're using it is absolutely in the class of things that will get people killed entirely gratuitously, and while I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's right to kill the perpetrator, they certainly have no right to complain if happen not to survive the encounter.
jrmg 3y ago
Man, and further up this post there was someone talking about running over groups of cyclists if they maliciously surrounded their car. Try to remain calm. You’re generally not allowed to just _murder_ people who attempt to inconvenience, detain, or rob you, even though they are ‘being dicks’. That’s not how crime is dealt with in a stable society. It’s not a ‘new reality’. I really hope we’re not devolving into a place where more people think this way…
- CatWChainsaw 3y ago
  We are that far gone. https://philosophybear.substack.com/p/a-short-comment-on-self-defense-and https://philosophybear.substack.com/p/a-short-comment-on-sel...
  - jrmg 3y ago
    Thanks for that link. Points 8, 9 and 10 seem so appropriate. I often feel that we’re similarly in danger of forgetting the adage that “it is better to let the crime of a guilty person go unpunished than to condemn the innocent.” I’m not sure we really are ‘that far gone’ though. I’m hopeful that people just always feel like this a little, to greater and lesser extents. Both the world and America have been through darker periods in the past.
    - CatWChainsaw 3y ago
      To me that suggests that we need to go through another such dark episode before a cold slap of reality returns us all to more sensibility.
- nemo44x 3y ago
  Equally we seem to be devolving to a place where more people think doing things like this is ok. The solution isn’t to run them over - your advice to remain calm is good. But we need harsh penalties for people that intentionally block traffic. Prison and life altering fines are a first step. This will absolutely deter this type of behavior.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    You want life-altering fines and prison for inconveniencing cars? Do you think the US judicial system is at all capable of applying this fairly? That law would exist for a day before someone deemed "undesirable" is arrested for not getting across the street faster than the crosswalk signal. Mental breakdown in the street? Jail Cyclist riding in a way the cops don't like? Jail Grandma can't get her wheelchair up the curb ramp? Jail
    - nemo44x 3y ago
      I’m saying organized, pre-meditated action designed to disrupt traffic. Laying in the street to protest, for example. Someone could be blocked while driving to a hospital etc. People should have the courage of their convictions. This allows that.
  - AlexandrB 3y ago
    If that's the penalty for delaying traffic, a DUI or texting while driving should be life in prison. Delaying traffic is much less likely to get someone killed.
    - nemo44x 3y ago
      Prison and life altering fines are already in place for those. If you kill a person while DD you will be charged for that and face years/decades in prison.
      - kelnos 3y ago
        The GP said DUI or texting alone would have to involve life sentences, regardless if anyone was hurt or killed. The point is that punishments that aren't in proportion to the crime don't lead to a particularly good society to live in. A society that imposes a "life altering fine" for delaying traffic is not a society I'd like to live in, and I suspect many others would agree with me.
- 9991 3y ago
  How far gone are you to think that kidnapping and robbery aren't violent acts that justify violent responses? If you try to detain me illegally (also known as false imprisonment) you're just asking for a face full of lead. But 'Murder' is unlawful killing. This would be self-defense.
  - jrmg 3y ago
    The acts I listed [edit: or the one in the grandparent post - it’s literally talking about putting a cone on a car…] don’t necessarily involve violence. Even if they do, self-defense has to be proportional. Laws obviously differ in different places, but, generally, yes, you can defend yourself. You generally can’t kill someone unless you yourself are under a plausible threat of death though.
    - barsonme 3y ago
      nit: it is usually death or grievous bodily harm.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    Right, but the law doesn't allow you (in California, at least) to assume that someone (for example) putting a cone on your car is also intending to rob or kidnap or kill you. And even then, you are not legally allowed to use deadly force to protect your belongings; you can only do so if your life is in danger. Certainly some places have "stand your ground" and "castle doctrine" laws that give you more latitude to use self-defense as legal justification, but even in places like that, it's not absolute.

m00x 3y ago

While it is an incredibly shitty thing to do, that does not give you the right to murder someone.

naniwaduni 3y ago
Putting large vision-blocking objects on people's cars while they're using it is absolutely in the class of things that will get people killed entirely gratuitously, and while I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's right to kill the perpetrator, they certainly have no right to complain if happen not to survive the encounter.

jrmg 3y ago

Man, and further up this post there was someone talking about running over groups of cyclists if they maliciously surrounded their car. Try to remain calm. You’re generally not allowed to just _murder_ people who attempt to inconvenience, detain, or rob you, even though they are ‘being dicks’. That’s not how crime is dealt with in a stable society. It’s not a ‘new reality’. I really hope we’re not devolving into a place where more people think this way…

CatWChainsaw 3y ago
We are that far gone. https://philosophybear.substack.com/p/a-short-comment-on-self-defense-and https://philosophybear.substack.com/p/a-short-comment-on-sel...
- jrmg 3y ago
  Thanks for that link. Points 8, 9 and 10 seem so appropriate. I often feel that we’re similarly in danger of forgetting the adage that “it is better to let the crime of a guilty person go unpunished than to condemn the innocent.” I’m not sure we really are ‘that far gone’ though. I’m hopeful that people just always feel like this a little, to greater and lesser extents. Both the world and America have been through darker periods in the past.
  - CatWChainsaw 3y ago
    To me that suggests that we need to go through another such dark episode before a cold slap of reality returns us all to more sensibility.
nemo44x 3y ago
Equally we seem to be devolving to a place where more people think doing things like this is ok. The solution isn’t to run them over - your advice to remain calm is good. But we need harsh penalties for people that intentionally block traffic. Prison and life altering fines are a first step. This will absolutely deter this type of behavior.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  You want life-altering fines and prison for inconveniencing cars? Do you think the US judicial system is at all capable of applying this fairly? That law would exist for a day before someone deemed "undesirable" is arrested for not getting across the street faster than the crosswalk signal. Mental breakdown in the street? Jail Cyclist riding in a way the cops don't like? Jail Grandma can't get her wheelchair up the curb ramp? Jail
  - nemo44x 3y ago
    I’m saying organized, pre-meditated action designed to disrupt traffic. Laying in the street to protest, for example. Someone could be blocked while driving to a hospital etc. People should have the courage of their convictions. This allows that.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  If that's the penalty for delaying traffic, a DUI or texting while driving should be life in prison. Delaying traffic is much less likely to get someone killed.
  - nemo44x 3y ago
    Prison and life altering fines are already in place for those. If you kill a person while DD you will be charged for that and face years/decades in prison.
    - kelnos 3y ago
      The GP said DUI or texting alone would have to involve life sentences, regardless if anyone was hurt or killed. The point is that punishments that aren't in proportion to the crime don't lead to a particularly good society to live in. A society that imposes a "life altering fine" for delaying traffic is not a society I'd like to live in, and I suspect many others would agree with me.
9991 3y ago
How far gone are you to think that kidnapping and robbery aren't violent acts that justify violent responses? If you try to detain me illegally (also known as false imprisonment) you're just asking for a face full of lead. But 'Murder' is unlawful killing. This would be self-defense.
- jrmg 3y ago
  The acts I listed [edit: or the one in the grandparent post - it’s literally talking about putting a cone on a car…] don’t necessarily involve violence. Even if they do, self-defense has to be proportional. Laws obviously differ in different places, but, generally, yes, you can defend yourself. You generally can’t kill someone unless you yourself are under a plausible threat of death though.
  - barsonme 3y ago
    nit: it is usually death or grievous bodily harm.
- kelnos 3y ago
  Right, but the law doesn't allow you (in California, at least) to assume that someone (for example) putting a cone on your car is also intending to rob or kidnap or kill you. And even then, you are not legally allowed to use deadly force to protect your belongings; you can only do so if your life is in danger. Certainly some places have "stand your ground" and "castle doctrine" laws that give you more latitude to use self-defense as legal justification, but even in places like that, it's not absolute.