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> DNA is not here "for" anything, DNA is a Thing That Happens. I agree, and my point was that saying: > We are here on earth to make copies of our DNA. Just

> DNA is not here "for" anything, DNA is a Thing That Happens. I agree, and my point was that saying: > We are here on earth to make copies of our DNA. Just kicks the can down the road. We're not here to make copies of our DNA any more than DNA is here to make copies of us. > Sure, but that's just a side-effect of the process. It's not the purpose of our existence. So, too, are we, as is replication itself. It happens to be the only reason the process continues, but it has no inherent purpose any more than playfulness does. It just is. This could also be framed as: we are the process. > Given the right combination of atoms, a source of energy, and enough time, a self-reproducing system will appear by pure chance. After that Darwin takes over. All of these things happened before Darwin was involved, and while I understand the point you're making, I'm calling this out because Natural Selection is again just a language and labeling game that maps the process relative to our experience of it and our understanding of various scientific disciplines. None of this brings us closer to a "purpose", per se. The statement that "existence is fundamentally playful" is not a claim about purpose either. But rather, an observation about how things appear to be, based on our ability to understand them. Some people would also say that existence is fundamentally mathematical.

lisper 3y ago
I think we're basically in violent agreement here. The only thing I would point out is that there is an asymmetry: reproduction can exist without playfulness (I don't think bacteria do much playing). But playfulness cannot exist without reproduction. That's the reason I think it's fair to put reproduction in a more primary role.
- haswell 3y ago
  I guess I'm not sure what one is supposed to conclude about that asymmetry, or if it makes sense to compare reproduction and playfulness in that way. What is the primary role you're referring to? Existence can be fundamentally a lot of things. One isn't taking away from the other.
  - lisper 3y ago
    I'm just saying that there's a hierarchy of emergent phenomena. At root everything is governed by the Schrodinger equation or something like that, but from that you get chemistry, and from chemistry you get biology, and from biology you get technology, and from technology you get Nintendo. Each of these are strictly dependent on the ones before in the list. You can't have chemistry without physics, you can't have biology without chemistry, you can't have technology without biology, and you can't have Nintendo without technology. But none of these are the "meaning of life", they are just the causes and ancillary effects of life.

lisper 3y ago

I think we're basically in violent agreement here. The only thing I would point out is that there is an asymmetry: reproduction can exist without playfulness (I don't think bacteria do much playing). But playfulness cannot exist without reproduction. That's the reason I think it's fair to put reproduction in a more primary role.

haswell 3y ago
I guess I'm not sure what one is supposed to conclude about that asymmetry, or if it makes sense to compare reproduction and playfulness in that way. What is the primary role you're referring to? Existence can be fundamentally a lot of things. One isn't taking away from the other.
- lisper 3y ago
  I'm just saying that there's a hierarchy of emergent phenomena. At root everything is governed by the Schrodinger equation or something like that, but from that you get chemistry, and from chemistry you get biology, and from biology you get technology, and from technology you get Nintendo. Each of these are strictly dependent on the ones before in the list. You can't have chemistry without physics, you can't have biology without chemistry, you can't have technology without biology, and you can't have Nintendo without technology. But none of these are the "meaning of life", they are just the causes and ancillary effects of life.