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Eastern European people are very much german orientated. Most speak better German than English. So no you are not right. Germany is immensively popular by te

Eastern European people are very much german orientated. Most speak better German than English. So no you are not right. Germany is immensively popular by tech migrants from Russia. Poland, Hungary, Czech etc.

badpun 3y ago
> Most speak better German than English. That's not true, at least not in Poland. Also, current German take-home salaries for coders are lower than Polish (gross amounts are similar, but in Poland a lot of coders are self-employed, with very lox taxes), with vastly higher costs of living. If anything, Germans programmers should emigrate to Poland - they're not getting a great deal in their country.
- ManuelKiessling 3y ago
  I’m intrigued — can you provide some numbers, e.g. some typical hourly rates and/or monthly wages for some typical programming jobs? Or maybe you have some sources (I’ll be able to help myself with Google Translate if they are Polish).
  - badpun 3y ago
    Bog-standard seniors in Poland typically make 18k-25k PLN per month, which translates to 216k-300k PLN per year. If you're self-employed in software, you will pay roughly 2k of flat fees per month (health insurance, social security etc.), plus a flat 13% tax. So, your net take home pay will be 163k-237 PLN, or 13.5k-19.75k PLN per month. That's 3k-4.43k EUR take home pay per month. My understanding is that it's not that much lower than what you can get in Germany, while real estate and other costs of living in Poland is much cheaper than in Germany (real estate in Germany is probably easily twice the price in Poland). The main advantage of Western Europe is the lucrative contract market, where you can make much more money than in usual full time employment. A lot of these contracts are non-remote, so you have to live in a big city in Germany, UK, Sweden etc. to get them. However, some are remote friendly and still pay 500-600 eur per day. I personally work these contracts from Poland, pay my 13% flat tax rate, and am the wealthiest person I know in my age group thanks to it. The disadvantage of this strategy is that, if the economy is in recession (like right now), the contracts dry up first.
- type0 3y ago
  I agree, actually think Poland is one of the best countries in Europe for future digital sector, it's more open to dealing in English language and more open to change when it comes to business. As levels of living rise, I'm fairly confident it will be attracting more and better talents than other old EU countries. Other East Europeans are treated much better in Poland than Germany (West Germans don't even treat East Germans that well).
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>astern European people are very much german orientated. Not true in Romania at all. We're latin and way more US/angloshpere oriented than German. Where did you get your information? You're probably thinking only of the parts of the former Austrian empire which used to speak German, but the youth there is also more Anglo focused than German, and it's only a samll part of eastern Europe
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  It is true in Romania, too. Since the ethnic Hungarian population isn’t Latin, interest in the German language has always been higher among them, and Germany has been a magnet for Hungarian emigration from Romania. But even leaving language aside, I know a number of ethnic Romanians from Cluj and Timisoara who moved to Germany, especially Berlin a decade ago when it was viewed as the hipster capital of Europe and still regarded as a cheap place to live.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Sure, but the German speaking population in Romania is also due to it being part of the former Austrian empire, not because Romanians have a natureal affinity towards German.
    - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
      It’s not necessarily a matter of being part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire but the role of German as a major European language of culture and learning, one that for Romania’s ethnic Hungarian population was never quite replaced by French. German has been popular in Bulgaria, too, and Germany a major destination for Bulgarian emigration, in spite of that country always being well outside any German-speaking empires.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >German as a major European language of culture and learning Maybe, but that was not my experience growing up in Romania, unless maybe you refer to some niches of highly educated and cultured people in some posh circles of academia, but I'm talking more about the average joe. English was by far the most dominant foreign language learned by the youth due to the influence of Anglo entertainment industry, followed by French as a distant second, and then German. The fact that more people emigrated to Germany than to France or the UK (maybe, I don't have statistics) has nothing to do with people's affinity for that country's language or culture, but to the economic opportunities available to them there. Most people didn't study German before emigrating to Germany, but learned it there out of necessity. This might just be my circles, but nobody I knew growing up had any affinity or interest for the German language or German culture as it was seen as an ugly and difficult to learn language of boring hard-working people who are only famous for building great cars and for that other thing (no offence, but that was the stereotype amongst clueless young people), people only wanted to learn German to emigrate there later in life for economic reasons. >German has been popular in Bulgaria, too Do you have a source on that? Like I said before, a country being a popular destination for labor immigration doesn't mean that foreign language is also popular in that country.

badpun 3y ago

> Most speak better German than English. That's not true, at least not in Poland. Also, current German take-home salaries for coders are lower than Polish (gross amounts are similar, but in Poland a lot of coders are self-employed, with very lox taxes), with vastly higher costs of living. If anything, Germans programmers should emigrate to Poland - they're not getting a great deal in their country.

ManuelKiessling 3y ago
I’m intrigued — can you provide some numbers, e.g. some typical hourly rates and/or monthly wages for some typical programming jobs? Or maybe you have some sources (I’ll be able to help myself with Google Translate if they are Polish).
- badpun 3y ago
  Bog-standard seniors in Poland typically make 18k-25k PLN per month, which translates to 216k-300k PLN per year. If you're self-employed in software, you will pay roughly 2k of flat fees per month (health insurance, social security etc.), plus a flat 13% tax. So, your net take home pay will be 163k-237 PLN, or 13.5k-19.75k PLN per month. That's 3k-4.43k EUR take home pay per month. My understanding is that it's not that much lower than what you can get in Germany, while real estate and other costs of living in Poland is much cheaper than in Germany (real estate in Germany is probably easily twice the price in Poland). The main advantage of Western Europe is the lucrative contract market, where you can make much more money than in usual full time employment. A lot of these contracts are non-remote, so you have to live in a big city in Germany, UK, Sweden etc. to get them. However, some are remote friendly and still pay 500-600 eur per day. I personally work these contracts from Poland, pay my 13% flat tax rate, and am the wealthiest person I know in my age group thanks to it. The disadvantage of this strategy is that, if the economy is in recession (like right now), the contracts dry up first.
type0 3y ago
I agree, actually think Poland is one of the best countries in Europe for future digital sector, it's more open to dealing in English language and more open to change when it comes to business. As levels of living rise, I'm fairly confident it will be attracting more and better talents than other old EU countries. Other East Europeans are treated much better in Poland than Germany (West Germans don't even treat East Germans that well).

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>astern European people are very much german orientated. Not true in Romania at all. We're latin and way more US/angloshpere oriented than German. Where did you get your information? You're probably thinking only of the parts of the former Austrian empire which used to speak German, but the youth there is also more Anglo focused than German, and it's only a samll part of eastern Europe

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
It is true in Romania, too. Since the ethnic Hungarian population isn’t Latin, interest in the German language has always been higher among them, and Germany has been a magnet for Hungarian emigration from Romania. But even leaving language aside, I know a number of ethnic Romanians from Cluj and Timisoara who moved to Germany, especially Berlin a decade ago when it was viewed as the hipster capital of Europe and still regarded as a cheap place to live.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Sure, but the German speaking population in Romania is also due to it being part of the former Austrian empire, not because Romanians have a natureal affinity towards German.
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    It’s not necessarily a matter of being part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire but the role of German as a major European language of culture and learning, one that for Romania’s ethnic Hungarian population was never quite replaced by French. German has been popular in Bulgaria, too, and Germany a major destination for Bulgarian emigration, in spite of that country always being well outside any German-speaking empires.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >German as a major European language of culture and learning Maybe, but that was not my experience growing up in Romania, unless maybe you refer to some niches of highly educated and cultured people in some posh circles of academia, but I'm talking more about the average joe. English was by far the most dominant foreign language learned by the youth due to the influence of Anglo entertainment industry, followed by French as a distant second, and then German. The fact that more people emigrated to Germany than to France or the UK (maybe, I don't have statistics) has nothing to do with people's affinity for that country's language or culture, but to the economic opportunities available to them there. Most people didn't study German before emigrating to Germany, but learned it there out of necessity. This might just be my circles, but nobody I knew growing up had any affinity or interest for the German language or German culture as it was seen as an ugly and difficult to learn language of boring hard-working people who are only famous for building great cars and for that other thing (no offence, but that was the stereotype amongst clueless young people), people only wanted to learn German to emigrate there later in life for economic reasons. >German has been popular in Bulgaria, too Do you have a source on that? Like I said before, a country being a popular destination for labor immigration doesn't mean that foreign language is also popular in that country.