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Huh? What usual cluelessness? They recently started discussing a proposal that will force all phone manufacturers to support devices for at least 5 years. http

Huh? What usual cluelessness? They recently started discussing a proposal that will force all phone manufacturers to support devices for at least 5 years. https://www.androidauthority.com/eu-smartphone-updates-rules-3205112/ https://www.androidauthority.com/eu-smartphone-updates-rules...

scarface_74 3y ago
How well did the whole GDPR thing work out? All they did was made the web experience worse with cookie pop up banners.
- hypertele-Xii 3y ago
  It's the websites themselves that make the experience worse. Nobody forced them to have cookie pop up banners. GDPR simply forced them to be upfront about what they're doing and get permission - and they chose to be in your face and dark-pattern about it. The "web experience" was infinitely better before ads and tracking infested everything.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    If given a choice, do you really think most users are singing the EUs praises about cookie pop ups and websites to be upfront? When was this mythical time the web wasn’t ad ridden? Do you not recall the pop up camera ads and the punch the monkey banner ads?
    - wizofaus 3y ago
      I can't say exactly when I first noticed how pervasive and intrusive web advertising was getting but it was at least 10 years after I started using the web regularly (~1994).
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        The first web banner ad was in fact 1994. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/04/the-first-ever-banner-ad-on-the-web/523728/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/04/the-f... The x10 pop up windows were ubiquitous by 2001 https://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=88041&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=88041&page=1
        wizofaus 3y ago
        Perhaps, but it didn't seem to badly affect the sites I mostly visited until much later.
    - hypertele-Xii 3y ago
      > When was this mythical time the web wasn’t ad ridden? Seems like ages ago. Webrings and link directories. Every page was hand-made by a passionate human, for other passionate humans, about subjects they cared about. Now it's 99.99% ads, tracking, engagement, spam, link farms, generated garbage, outrage, and now AI nonsense. There's so little to bookmark (i.e. care about) that browsers dropped support for bookmarks. Just think about that. No place worth remembering nor revisiting anymore.
    - danShumway 3y ago
      I have some issues with GDPR implementation but this is just straight-up disconnected from reality; GDPR is relatively popular in Europe. If anything, most stats that I've seen suggest that Europeans generally want privacy laws to go further.
- tga_d 3y ago
  It seems like you're trying to apply an analogy, but I can't make out what it is. What, specifically, will happen if the EU mandates device support that is like cookie pop up banners? (As an aside, GDPR did a lot of privacy-related things that have nothing to do with cookies.)
- SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
  > GDPR .. All they did was made the web experience worse with cookie pop up banners. That's bullshit. I have been in the room when tech teams have had a good hard look at their databases, and set expiry polices on old tracking data. Why? GDPR compliance. The knock-on effects in data leaks that never happened is large. Characterising GDPR as merely bureaucracy and cookie banners is shallow and wrong. I don't think that you know anything about the subject. Please do not repeat this nonsensical claim.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    I know that ot is monstrosity of 11 chapters and 99 sections that did about as much to make web browsing worse as Google ads.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
      You see one effect, and confidently claim "all they did was effect one". So you have sufficient breadth of domain expertise to know that nothing else happened as consequence? Or just a very myopic self-centred world-view? The thing is, if you're not a EU citizen or resident then the benefits are not for you, that's how legal jurisdiction works. So then, do you argue from meanness: it doesn't benefit me, so we should get rid if and the way that it benefit's others, or from inclusion: Why can't my legal jurisdiction have something similar? You also have to ask yourself, if all you know is some reaction involving sites putting up cookie banners, from way outside; why you would consider yourself well informed enough to reach a conclusion that "that's all they did", and share it.
- M2Ys4U 3y ago
  > How well did the whole GDPR thing work out? Very well, actually. >All they did was made the web experience worse with cookie pop up banners. That was not the GDPR. The GDPR does not talk about cookies anywhere. It's the ePrivacy Directive (from 2002, amended in 2009) that deals with cookies (or any type of storage on an end user's device). It's the ePD that says if you set cookies and it's not strictly necessary to provide the service then you must get consent. The only change the GDPR made in this area was tightening up the definition of "consent" to actually mean consent and not merely lack of disapproval.

scarface_74 3y ago

How well did the whole GDPR thing work out? All they did was made the web experience worse with cookie pop up banners.

hypertele-Xii 3y ago
It's the websites themselves that make the experience worse. Nobody forced them to have cookie pop up banners. GDPR simply forced them to be upfront about what they're doing and get permission - and they chose to be in your face and dark-pattern about it. The "web experience" was infinitely better before ads and tracking infested everything.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  If given a choice, do you really think most users are singing the EUs praises about cookie pop ups and websites to be upfront? When was this mythical time the web wasn’t ad ridden? Do you not recall the pop up camera ads and the punch the monkey banner ads?
  - wizofaus 3y ago
    I can't say exactly when I first noticed how pervasive and intrusive web advertising was getting but it was at least 10 years after I started using the web regularly (~1994).
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      The first web banner ad was in fact 1994. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/04/the-first-ever-banner-ad-on-the-web/523728/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/04/the-f... The x10 pop up windows were ubiquitous by 2001 https://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=88041&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=88041&page=1
      - wizofaus 3y ago
        Perhaps, but it didn't seem to badly affect the sites I mostly visited until much later.
  - hypertele-Xii 3y ago
    > When was this mythical time the web wasn’t ad ridden? Seems like ages ago. Webrings and link directories. Every page was hand-made by a passionate human, for other passionate humans, about subjects they cared about. Now it's 99.99% ads, tracking, engagement, spam, link farms, generated garbage, outrage, and now AI nonsense. There's so little to bookmark (i.e. care about) that browsers dropped support for bookmarks. Just think about that. No place worth remembering nor revisiting anymore.
  - danShumway 3y ago
    I have some issues with GDPR implementation but this is just straight-up disconnected from reality; GDPR is relatively popular in Europe. If anything, most stats that I've seen suggest that Europeans generally want privacy laws to go further.
tga_d 3y ago
It seems like you're trying to apply an analogy, but I can't make out what it is. What, specifically, will happen if the EU mandates device support that is like cookie pop up banners? (As an aside, GDPR did a lot of privacy-related things that have nothing to do with cookies.)
SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
> GDPR .. All they did was made the web experience worse with cookie pop up banners. That's bullshit. I have been in the room when tech teams have had a good hard look at their databases, and set expiry polices on old tracking data. Why? GDPR compliance. The knock-on effects in data leaks that never happened is large. Characterising GDPR as merely bureaucracy and cookie banners is shallow and wrong. I don't think that you know anything about the subject. Please do not repeat this nonsensical claim.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  I know that ot is monstrosity of 11 chapters and 99 sections that did about as much to make web browsing worse as Google ads.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
    You see one effect, and confidently claim "all they did was effect one". So you have sufficient breadth of domain expertise to know that nothing else happened as consequence? Or just a very myopic self-centred world-view? The thing is, if you're not a EU citizen or resident then the benefits are not for you, that's how legal jurisdiction works. So then, do you argue from meanness: it doesn't benefit me, so we should get rid if and the way that it benefit's others, or from inclusion: Why can't my legal jurisdiction have something similar? You also have to ask yourself, if all you know is some reaction involving sites putting up cookie banners, from way outside; why you would consider yourself well informed enough to reach a conclusion that "that's all they did", and share it.
M2Ys4U 3y ago
> How well did the whole GDPR thing work out? Very well, actually. >All they did was made the web experience worse with cookie pop up banners. That was not the GDPR. The GDPR does not talk about cookies anywhere. It's the ePrivacy Directive (from 2002, amended in 2009) that deals with cookies (or any type of storage on an end user's device). It's the ePD that says if you set cookies and it's not strictly necessary to provide the service then you must get consent. The only change the GDPR made in this area was tightening up the definition of "consent" to actually mean consent and not merely lack of disapproval.