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So the Roma aren’t a counterculture? I agree homeless people aren’t a political movement that’s trying to abolish homes, but they are completely rejecting main
by RC_ITR 3y ago
So the Roma aren’t a counterculture?
I agree homeless people aren’t a political movement that’s trying to abolish homes, but they are completely rejecting mainstream culture (by choice or not).
> Countercultures are often described as radical groups of people who reject established social values and practices and who embrace a mode of life opposed to the mainstream. Countercultures emerge in the wake of dramatic economic and social developments. They are reactions to social dislocation and alienation from society. Countercultures share many similarities with subcultures, but rather than modifying dominant values and norms, they seek to reconstruct an alternative social order that rejects or subverts those values and norms.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/countercultures https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/counter...
- s1artibartfast 3y ago>they are completely rejecting mainstream culture (by choice or not). Choice is fundamental to rejection, and rejection is fundamental to counter culture. The Roma are an interesting example, but not all homeless are Roma, so you can't generalize the idea. It's also interesting to question if Roma constitute a counterculture, and if so what culture they are in juxtaposition with given the fact that Roma culture predates contemporary culture
- RC_ITR 3y ago>Choice is fundamental to rejection, and rejection is fundamental to counter culture. Most Westerners 'reject' Marxism, but that's not because we choose not to live in Marxist societies, it's because none exist that would take a Westerner in. "Choice" is very often an expression of circumstance, and I would again argue the emphasis on wealthy white people choosing to become hippies in the 1960s has really skewed peoples idea of what a counterculture is.
- s1artibartfast 3y agoI heartily disagree. Choice is central to rejection. Someone born blind by circumstance is not rejecting vision. Some who blinds themselves or refuses restorative treatment is rejecting vision. Re Marxism, Most people reject Marxism by not desiring it or desiring to implement it. They have the choice to advocate for it or vote for Marxists, but in general do not. However, some do choose it and there is a small US communist party.
- RC_ITR 3y agoBut surely you agree that those people who vote for it do not live in Marxist societies/cultures? They live in cultures completely counter to Marxism. In practice they reject Marxism because they do not live its principles.
- s1artibartfast 3y agoI dont think that constitutes rejection of Marxism. If you do everything within your power to bring about communism, are you not rejecting it. If there is more in your power to do and you choose not to, then that is rejection. This comes back to rejection being a matter of choice. Does a slave reject freedom, because they dont have it and cant obtain it? Is a cancer patient who cant afford treatment rejecting treatment? Of course we wouldnt say these things because rejection implies option and choice.
- watwut 3y agoRoma have their own culture. It is not counterculture, it is just how their traditions developed.
- RC_ITR 3y agoRomani culture developed and maintained a nomadic lifestyle in areas where non-nomadic people already lived. To the point of choice, most Romani people are born into it. If that's not a counter-culture, then what is a counterculture exactly?
- watwut 3y agoCounterculture was very specifically people NOT borned into it, but instead choosing it as young adults. When they rejected valies of society they grew up with. Romas are having their own lifestyle and values. If they are counterculture, every minority is counterculture. Would you say that Asians or orthodox Jews are counterculture?