6 ms·

Megachurches preach prosperity theology. Book of Job conclusively says it's bullshit.

by cmurf 3y ago

FredPret 3y ago
Their bank accounts say otherwise!
atdrummond 3y ago
This is a pretty wide brush to paint with. I’m sure you could reasonably argue that even a majority preach prosperity gospel but there are plenty of megachurches affiliated with mainstream/more traditional denominations for whom said teachings are heretical. (I am an Orthodox convert personally, so I have no dog in this fight.)
- stuartjohnson12 3y ago
  As a cynic, it would genuinely change my view in a significant way if you could highlight examples of some megachurches whose owners don't seem to be psychopaths out to exploit as man vulnerable people with religion as possible.
  - kochb 3y ago
    While I’m not personally familiar with them, Redeemer Presbyterian Church[1] in New York City (previously pastored by Tim Keller[2]) comes to mind. [1]: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/life-and-times-of-redeemer-presbyterian-church/?amp https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/life-and-times-of... [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Keller_(pastor) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Keller_(pastor)
  - dahfizz 3y ago
    Doing a quick google on Liquid church, which TFA is about.... They paid off $13m of people's medical debt[1] They volunteer in the community[2] They have people digging wells in Honduras[3] They send a million meals to the poor countries[4][5] They seem genuine enough to me [1] https://parsippanyfocus.com/2021/02/15/liquid-church-eliminates-13-7-million-in-crushing-medical-debt-for-3800-new-jersey-families-in-need/ https://parsippanyfocus.com/2021/02/15/liquid-church-elimina... [2] https://connect.liquidchurch.com/MercercountyOutreach https://connect.liquidchurch.com/MercercountyOutreach [3] https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=669766711857088&set=a.559284772905283 https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=669766711857088&set=a.5... [4] https://tristatevoice.com/2022/12/22/liquid-church-packs-one-million-holiday-meals-to-feed-the-hungry-in-the-philippines/ https://tristatevoice.com/2022/12/22/liquid-church-packs-one... [5] https://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/local/outreach/caring-communities/2017/12/13/liquid-church-1-million-meals-puerto-rico/941869001/ https://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/local/outreach/ca...
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Churches don’t get large by constantly telling you that you’re a horrible person, you should live a life of poverty and give all of your worldly possessions to the poor.
yieldcrv 3y ago
Anyone that’s read the book knows you can interpret that in any way you want for your benefit. Especially amongst the illiterate. Easiest example: Everything in the Old Testament is invalid (when inconvenient) so the Book of Job is invalid too since it is in the Old Testament. God Type-0 no longer makes unsolicited bets with Satan for entertainment purposes. God Type-2 was born (again) and basks all its followers in love!
- synetic 3y ago
  You are absolutely correct. I’ve heard many people quote Leviticus as evidence that homosexuality is wrong but then also think it’s an abhorrent idea that a woman who is a virgin that is raped must marry her rapist.
  - Chris2048 3y ago
    Can you give the reference, there is enough ambiguity in the OT that it's required: https://cbmw.org/2018/03/05/did-old-testament-law-force-a-woman-to-marry-her-rapist/ https://cbmw.org/2018/03/05/did-old-testament-law-force-a-wo... But that aside, there is also the issue that circumstances have changed: > Among ancient cultures virginity was highly prized, and a woman who had been raped had little chance of marrying. These laws forced the rapist to provide for their victim. Paternity can now be determined far more easily, so virginity is no longer as prized. Women can more easily within society "be cared for", either by themselves, or the state; so its not as important to force a marriage. Divorcing from this context is a misrepresentation of the original law and its intention.
    - yieldcrv 3y ago
      All you need to know is that nobody goes into the much depth for verses they like, such as something motivational and heartwarming in Psalms The answer is “it’s open to interpretation”, specifically your interpretation of the way you want to have power over others, or let them have power over you so lets just fast forward to that part and move on. unless you want to control people, in which case I’m amused
    - 3y ago
bdcravens 3y ago
Not necessarily true. I haven't been attended in years, but I used to go a "megachurch" (a bit on smaller side, about 5000 each Sunday) that preached a fairly Baptist-core message.
dahfizz 3y ago
I mean, Joel Osteen definitely does. I don't think its fair to call all large churches bullshit. Their website seems genuine https://www.liquidchurch.com/about-liquid/ https://www.liquidchurch.com/about-liquid/
- andsoitis 3y ago
  It is curious how they define God as being co-equal Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They then go into describing the Son and the Holy Spirit, but not the Father. It would be nice if they also described the Father who is fully 1/3 of God. Odd. https://www.liquidchurch.com/about-liquid/values-beliefs/ https://www.liquidchurch.com/about-liquid/values-beliefs/
  - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
    I think they assume that the average person reading a church website is reasonably well acquainted with the concept of "God". There's a lot more potential for theological nuance with your positions on Christ and the Holy Spirit.
- atchoo 3y ago
  Oh yeah? https://liquidchurch.com/blogs/multiply-your-money https://liquidchurch.com/blogs/multiply-your-money > When we trust God with our finances, we open ourselves to His blessings and provision. In the story of the fishes and loaves, Jesus demonstrated His power to multiply resources beyond human capability. He did not just provide enough food for the crowd, but there were plenty of leftovers. It proves God can work miracles with our finances, too > When we tithe, we demonstrate our trust in God for our needs. Tithing is not just about giving 10% of our income to the church but also giving our first fruits to God. When we give our first fruits, we put God first in our lives and acknowledge Him as the source of all our blessings. It is vitally important to remember; God must bless it before it can multiply in your hands. > Tithing is just the beginning of our giving journey. God wants us to go above and beyond our tithes by giving offerings. Offerings are gifts to God over and above our tithes, demonstrating our willingness to be generous with our resources. When we give offerings, we tell God that we trust Him to multiply our resources and use them for His glory! > Let us be faithful stewards of God's blessings and use them to make a difference. Remember, only what is given away can multiply! Fucking grim. Most of these charasmatic churches are grifts. They focus on evangelical growth and tithing like an MLM. Only the gullible would give any them the benefit of doubt.
synetic 3y ago
I don’t intend to come across as combative. I agree prosperity theology is nonsense from a Bible point of view. However, as I see things, a very large percentage of Christians and Christian churches act in ways contrary to Biblical teaching. Isn’t it the case that everyone pretty much ignores the parts they don’t like and clings to the parts that they do like? Prosperity theology isn’t to your liking so you condemn it. For others it resonates with them. I think it’s understandable since every religious person chooses the parts they follow and disregards the parts they don’t like. (I’m an atheist so I’m not approaching this from a religious perspective.)
- Xeoncross 3y ago
  > Christian churches act in ways contrary to Biblical teaching I think you're spot on. Between culture and money, there are is a lot of pressure to fit your religion into your existing communities or lifestyle. Same is true of my Hindu and Muslim friends who, at a certain net-worth or moving to a certain geographic area are suddenly much less interested in what their religions say. "Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also"
  - synetic 3y ago
    Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also I like this phrasing. Thanks for sharing it.

Megachurches preach prosperity theology. Book of Job conclusively says it's bullshit.

by cmurf 3y ago

Megachurches preach prosperity theology. Book of Job conclusively says it's bullshit.

FredPret 3y ago

Their bank accounts say otherwise!

atdrummond 3y ago

This is a pretty wide brush to paint with. I’m sure you could reasonably argue that even a majority preach prosperity gospel but there are plenty of megachurches affiliated with mainstream/more traditional denominations for whom said teachings are heretical. (I am an Orthodox convert personally, so I have no dog in this fight.)

stuartjohnson12 3y ago
As a cynic, it would genuinely change my view in a significant way if you could highlight examples of some megachurches whose owners don't seem to be psychopaths out to exploit as man vulnerable people with religion as possible.
- kochb 3y ago
  While I’m not personally familiar with them, Redeemer Presbyterian Church[1] in New York City (previously pastored by Tim Keller[2]) comes to mind. [1]: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/life-and-times-of-redeemer-presbyterian-church/?amp https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/life-and-times-of... [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Keller_(pastor) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Keller_(pastor)
- dahfizz 3y ago
  Doing a quick google on Liquid church, which TFA is about.... They paid off $13m of people's medical debt[1] They volunteer in the community[2] They have people digging wells in Honduras[3] They send a million meals to the poor countries[4][5] They seem genuine enough to me [1] https://parsippanyfocus.com/2021/02/15/liquid-church-eliminates-13-7-million-in-crushing-medical-debt-for-3800-new-jersey-families-in-need/ https://parsippanyfocus.com/2021/02/15/liquid-church-elimina... [2] https://connect.liquidchurch.com/MercercountyOutreach https://connect.liquidchurch.com/MercercountyOutreach [3] https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=669766711857088&set=a.559284772905283 https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=669766711857088&set=a.5... [4] https://tristatevoice.com/2022/12/22/liquid-church-packs-one-million-holiday-meals-to-feed-the-hungry-in-the-philippines/ https://tristatevoice.com/2022/12/22/liquid-church-packs-one... [5] https://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/local/outreach/caring-communities/2017/12/13/liquid-church-1-million-meals-puerto-rico/941869001/ https://www.mycentraljersey.com/story/news/local/outreach/ca...
scarface_74 3y ago
Churches don’t get large by constantly telling you that you’re a horrible person, you should live a life of poverty and give all of your worldly possessions to the poor.

yieldcrv 3y ago

Anyone that’s read the book knows you can interpret that in any way you want for your benefit. Especially amongst the illiterate. Easiest example: Everything in the Old Testament is invalid (when inconvenient) so the Book of Job is invalid too since it is in the Old Testament. God Type-0 no longer makes unsolicited bets with Satan for entertainment purposes. God Type-2 was born (again) and basks all its followers in love!

synetic 3y ago
You are absolutely correct. I’ve heard many people quote Leviticus as evidence that homosexuality is wrong but then also think it’s an abhorrent idea that a woman who is a virgin that is raped must marry her rapist.
- Chris2048 3y ago
  Can you give the reference, there is enough ambiguity in the OT that it's required: https://cbmw.org/2018/03/05/did-old-testament-law-force-a-woman-to-marry-her-rapist/ https://cbmw.org/2018/03/05/did-old-testament-law-force-a-wo... But that aside, there is also the issue that circumstances have changed: > Among ancient cultures virginity was highly prized, and a woman who had been raped had little chance of marrying. These laws forced the rapist to provide for their victim. Paternity can now be determined far more easily, so virginity is no longer as prized. Women can more easily within society "be cared for", either by themselves, or the state; so its not as important to force a marriage. Divorcing from this context is a misrepresentation of the original law and its intention.
  - yieldcrv 3y ago
    All you need to know is that nobody goes into the much depth for verses they like, such as something motivational and heartwarming in Psalms The answer is “it’s open to interpretation”, specifically your interpretation of the way you want to have power over others, or let them have power over you so lets just fast forward to that part and move on. unless you want to control people, in which case I’m amused
  - 3y ago

bdcravens 3y ago

Not necessarily true. I haven't been attended in years, but I used to go a "megachurch" (a bit on smaller side, about 5000 each Sunday) that preached a fairly Baptist-core message.

dahfizz 3y ago

I mean, Joel Osteen definitely does. I don't think its fair to call all large churches bullshit. Their website seems genuine https://www.liquidchurch.com/about-liquid/ https://www.liquidchurch.com/about-liquid/

andsoitis 3y ago
It is curious how they define God as being co-equal Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They then go into describing the Son and the Holy Spirit, but not the Father. It would be nice if they also described the Father who is fully 1/3 of God. Odd. https://www.liquidchurch.com/about-liquid/values-beliefs/ https://www.liquidchurch.com/about-liquid/values-beliefs/
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
  I think they assume that the average person reading a church website is reasonably well acquainted with the concept of "God". There's a lot more potential for theological nuance with your positions on Christ and the Holy Spirit.
atchoo 3y ago
Oh yeah? https://liquidchurch.com/blogs/multiply-your-money https://liquidchurch.com/blogs/multiply-your-money > When we trust God with our finances, we open ourselves to His blessings and provision. In the story of the fishes and loaves, Jesus demonstrated His power to multiply resources beyond human capability. He did not just provide enough food for the crowd, but there were plenty of leftovers. It proves God can work miracles with our finances, too > When we tithe, we demonstrate our trust in God for our needs. Tithing is not just about giving 10% of our income to the church but also giving our first fruits to God. When we give our first fruits, we put God first in our lives and acknowledge Him as the source of all our blessings. It is vitally important to remember; God must bless it before it can multiply in your hands. > Tithing is just the beginning of our giving journey. God wants us to go above and beyond our tithes by giving offerings. Offerings are gifts to God over and above our tithes, demonstrating our willingness to be generous with our resources. When we give offerings, we tell God that we trust Him to multiply our resources and use them for His glory! > Let us be faithful stewards of God's blessings and use them to make a difference. Remember, only what is given away can multiply! Fucking grim. Most of these charasmatic churches are grifts. They focus on evangelical growth and tithing like an MLM. Only the gullible would give any them the benefit of doubt.

synetic 3y ago

I don’t intend to come across as combative. I agree prosperity theology is nonsense from a Bible point of view. However, as I see things, a very large percentage of Christians and Christian churches act in ways contrary to Biblical teaching. Isn’t it the case that everyone pretty much ignores the parts they don’t like and clings to the parts that they do like? Prosperity theology isn’t to your liking so you condemn it. For others it resonates with them. I think it’s understandable since every religious person chooses the parts they follow and disregards the parts they don’t like. (I’m an atheist so I’m not approaching this from a religious perspective.)

Xeoncross 3y ago
> Christian churches act in ways contrary to Biblical teaching I think you're spot on. Between culture and money, there are is a lot of pressure to fit your religion into your existing communities or lifestyle. Same is true of my Hindu and Muslim friends who, at a certain net-worth or moving to a certain geographic area are suddenly much less interested in what their religions say. "Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also"
- synetic 3y ago
  Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also I like this phrasing. Thanks for sharing it.