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I'm less concerned with the production emissions of EVs and more concerned with how awful repairability is for EVs on the market right now. EVs are relatively s

I'm less concerned with the production emissions of EVs and more concerned with how awful repairability is for EVs on the market right now. EVs are relatively simple compared to their ICE counterparts, so it should be easier to repair them. But instead I keep hearing horror stories about battery designs that require you to replace the whole pack when a few cells die. And since EVs are usually treated as "luxury" vehicles right now, they also often come with silly features that add very little functionality and mostly serve as additional points of failure. Fragile features and poor rapairability - especially for parts that are expected to wear out like batteries - reduces a vehicle's lifespan, meaning we have to produce more vehicles to keep up with demand. Production emissions are much less concerning to me if the vehicle is expected to last 30+ years.

sokoloff 3y ago
My LEAF had an individual battery module replaced (under warranty) and I’ve heard anecdotes of several other EV owners online with a similar repair story. They’re not “all or nothing” already, though some probably are. More details: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=30380 https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=30380 By way of acknowledging the tradeoff, though, I think the Leaf battery is significantly easier to perform a module replacement on by virtue of it having such primitive (and less effective) thermal management. It's (poorly) air-cooled and thus degrades the battery modules more quickly than nearly any other EV on the market. > Production emissions are much less concerning to me if the vehicle is expected to last 30+ years. Rust due to environmentals and road salt usage precludes most New England cars lasting 30+ years now. Our 2005 Honda CR-V is a great car, still very good mechanically (at 229K miles), but will be retired within the next 5-10 years due to rust.
- CivBase 3y ago
  I live in the midwest, so I'm definitely familiar with rust. But the rust doesn't usually harm much more than aesthetics for the first few decades. If your 2005 CR-V makes it just 11 more years, it'll join that 30+ club. As long as she still runs, you can probably find a high school kid who will take it off your hands for around the scrap yard price. It's nice to hear some confirmation that the battery replacement issue isn't ubiquitous. Modular batteries definitely make more sense. If manufacturers can divide up the batteries into enough modules and adhere to some kind of open standard for how those modules interface with the pack, that would go a long way towards making EV ownership economical and increasing their longevity.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    The rust-as-just-aesthetics ship sailed long ago. We're at the "water intrusion into the cabin" and "lower rockers are starting to show mechanical degradation" stage. It's 50/50 to pass safety inspection five years from now.
freedude 3y ago
This is an actual risk, probably worse is the repairability from accidents documented by the New York Times. "The damage was initially deemed relatively minor, and the other driver’s insurer offered him $1,600. The actual cost to fix the bumper at a business certified to repair Rivian vehicles — one of just three in Ohio — was $42,000, roughly half the truck’s selling price." Here is a link to the story which doesn't require a paywall. https://news.yahoo.com/news/why-car-repairs-become-expensive-115219000.html https://news.yahoo.com/news/why-car-repairs-become-expensive...

sokoloff 3y ago

My LEAF had an individual battery module replaced (under warranty) and I’ve heard anecdotes of several other EV owners online with a similar repair story. They’re not “all or nothing” already, though some probably are. More details: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=30380 https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=30380 By way of acknowledging the tradeoff, though, I think the Leaf battery is significantly easier to perform a module replacement on by virtue of it having such primitive (and less effective) thermal management. It's (poorly) air-cooled and thus degrades the battery modules more quickly than nearly any other EV on the market. > Production emissions are much less concerning to me if the vehicle is expected to last 30+ years. Rust due to environmentals and road salt usage precludes most New England cars lasting 30+ years now. Our 2005 Honda CR-V is a great car, still very good mechanically (at 229K miles), but will be retired within the next 5-10 years due to rust.

CivBase 3y ago
I live in the midwest, so I'm definitely familiar with rust. But the rust doesn't usually harm much more than aesthetics for the first few decades. If your 2005 CR-V makes it just 11 more years, it'll join that 30+ club. As long as she still runs, you can probably find a high school kid who will take it off your hands for around the scrap yard price. It's nice to hear some confirmation that the battery replacement issue isn't ubiquitous. Modular batteries definitely make more sense. If manufacturers can divide up the batteries into enough modules and adhere to some kind of open standard for how those modules interface with the pack, that would go a long way towards making EV ownership economical and increasing their longevity.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  The rust-as-just-aesthetics ship sailed long ago. We're at the "water intrusion into the cabin" and "lower rockers are starting to show mechanical degradation" stage. It's 50/50 to pass safety inspection five years from now.

freedude 3y ago

This is an actual risk, probably worse is the repairability from accidents documented by the New York Times. "The damage was initially deemed relatively minor, and the other driver’s insurer offered him $1,600. The actual cost to fix the bumper at a business certified to repair Rivian vehicles — one of just three in Ohio — was $42,000, roughly half the truck’s selling price." Here is a link to the story which doesn't require a paywall. https://news.yahoo.com/news/why-car-repairs-become-expensive-115219000.html https://news.yahoo.com/news/why-car-repairs-become-expensive...