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The Right to Sex: Feminism in the Twenty-First Century
- andai 3y ago>She thinks that like therapy, hat the teaching process can be charged with eroticism, and the professors should channel that impulse towards learning. Man, I've been taking the wrong courses!
- markus_zhang 3y agoI need to take that too! Men have rights too!
- msla 3y agoYeah, that should be clearly marked in the syllabus, so people who don't want an "erotic" class can take something else. It's a massive violation.
- foogazi 3y agoI read this differently As in the therapy example: attraction might develop between the student & teacher. Instead of participating, the teacher should recognize/be aware that this exist but channel it back toward learning
- vacuity 3y agoSeems weird to me. Of course it started from Freud. I'm not outright discounting it (not like I have any evidence to) but it rubs me the wrong way that attraction would even be considered as part of the learning process. Not that the kind of power dynamic described between professors and students is great either.
- pc86 3y agoIt's been discounted by almost everyone else so it's probably safe to discount it.
- keldami 3y agoAs with almost everything. Moderate use is key.
- johnchristopher 3y agoModerate use of what ? Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A9?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_clich%C3%A...
- vacuity 3y agoSex, presumably. How parent thinks people should determine when to have sex or not, dunno.
- xg15 3y agoVouched for this because I don't see any reason why this was flagged. Sorry if I overlooked something.
- maze-le 3y agoI guess some people are uncomfortable with the issues raised in the article. Alternative explanation: some users are trigger-happy and flag an article based on the headline before they have a chance to read it. ~Its un-flagged by now~, and I vouched too BTW... Its a good article and a balanced discussion about feminism would be very nice to have here...
- msla 3y agoThe author questions whether men are "entitled" to their own bodies. Saying people's preferences are "Problematic" is a way to pressure them into sex: "You're a horrible person if you don't have sex with me!"
- maze-le 3y agoYes and if you'd continued to read the article, you would have noticed that this situation is used as an example about the problematic aspects of sexuality in our society -- its a segue to an argument, not the argument itself. > You are not entitled to sex with anyone, but people can have preferences that are problematic You rather took this one line out of context and interpreted in the worst possible way.
- sltkr 3y agoYou are missing the point: saying that some preferences are problematic while others are not by itself creates an unfair double standard, even if you pay lip-service to the idea of individual right to consent. When a man rejects a woman because she's obese, that's problematic. When a woman rejects a man because he's short, that's not problematic. I also find it sexist that both examples of racial preferences involve men, when it's well-established that women have stronger racial preferences than men, for example, white women prefer white men over Asian men (the least desirable group of men) by a much larger margin than white men prefer white women over Black women (the least desirable group of women). You could probably do the Grindr experiment on Tinder and find that the white man has an easier matching with women than the Asian man (especially if "Asian" means "Indian man" and not "K-pop idol dreamboat"). It's also strange to focus on men, when women are the pickier gender, especially when it comes to sex but to lesser extent also when it comes to dating. Even the undesirable black woman probably has an easier time hooking up than most white men. Of course, it all makes sense when you realize that most modern-day feminists are only interested in pointing out the “problematic” behavior of men and how it impacts women, and never the other way around. Finally, you phrased it as “THE problematic aspects of sexuality in our society” but the crux is that defining WHICH aspects are problematic is itself subjective and political. In Western society feminism dominates the institutions, so we get the result that "men rejecting black women" is problematic and "women rejecting Asian men" is not problematic. Of course, this isn't at all objective.
- msla 3y ago> In college, I was with a group of white men and the topic of dating came up. One of them mentioned he wouldn’t date a black woman. To my shock, the rest of the group agreed with him. We say that nobody is entitled to a relationship with someone else, but I was still disgusted. Are they entitled to have this preference, when it comes to something as personal as dating and sex? What the Hell is this? Of course they're "entitled" to their own bodies. What the Hell does she think, that she should be able to force them to have sex with her just because they're White and she's Black? She's a goddamned incel, treating others like props for her gratification. Plus, since this apparently needs to be said, defending a rapist makes you a horrible person. Splitting hairs about what is and isn't rape is defending a rapist.
- cuttysnark 3y ago> You are not entitled to sex with anyone, but people can have preferences that are problematic. I read the whole article, but at this sentence I reached for Cmd+W, which was done via muscle memory as my eyes were rolled so far back into my head.
- msla 3y agoYeah, she doesn't explicitly condone rape, but you're a Very Horrible Person if she can't pressure you into sex. Also, yes, dating effectively means sex and trying to defend a rapist by splitting hairs makes you horrible.
- foogazi 3y agodate != sex Thomas Jefferson didn’t date black women but didn’t have a problem having sex with one his slaves (allegedly)
- vacuity 3y agoYeah, I think I'll have regularly scheduled sex with my sla—wait, what? Thomas Jefferson isn't around in this modern world of dating, sex, and pornography. Besides, the book and the article are largely about sex.
- fullshark 3y agoSome day an honest conversation about how in our current internet landscape boys learn about sex through consuming hardcore pornography before they even kiss someone and whether that's something we want as a society needs to happen.
- ctrlp 3y ago"Lord, give me chastity and continence, but not yet!"
- falcolas 3y ago> whether that's something we want as a society needs to happen Not sure there's a choice. The allure of the taboo draws people in, even when they are not interested in the acts themselves. We should instead tailor education to assume that boys and girls will find a way to access porn.
- vacuity 3y agoDo you mean that sex ed classes should discuss how porn affects expectations of sex? That does seem reasonable.
- falcolas 3y agoYup. Reasonable, and perhaps even required. Similar to sex itself, aside from "abstinence only" positions on porn, there's very little open or fact-driven discussion about it.
- ahalbert 3y agoThe author thinks that porn literacy is a good thing, but she notes that it's difficult to teach students to read texts you can't show them.
- smitty1e 3y agoUntil we re-prioritize the f-word--family--the rest of the discussion is tangential.
- ctrlp 3y agoThe essayist sounds like a typical academic subversive. She offers no answers or theories, only questions, aka "...the politics of X" . In other words, she only "problematizes". Let's see: She offers a clinical yet sexually charged analysis of porn with no policy proposals (heaven forbid). Could there be a greater cliche in the Humanities departments of modern universities? Oh wait, of course she wants safe, legal sex work as well. Bingo! She wants to eroticize pedagogy, but also make sure the college administration is there to manage it. Oh, the frisson! Reference to Fraud, er Freud? Check! OH WOW! SUCH FREUD! Freudianism was/is a pseudo-scientific cult that only lit-crit academics and $200/hr therapists still take seriously. Along with its marxist offshoots, its radical political program was instrumental in the 20th century european/american cultural suicide that had its death rattle in the 60s counter-culture victory. Our modern malaise, including the ubiquitous porn rotting our children's sexual health is the creature of those flower-power radicals. But it's just "Porn" in the abstract. Not the creation of actual people whom it would be fairly easy to constrain if there is a cultural will to do so. But hiding that fact behind the massive force of inevitable abstractions demoralizes the people, er "consumers", to the point of impotence. Essayists like this loathsome academic are the priestly caste of the modern world, they baffle and confuse decent people.
- vacuity 3y ago> Oh wait, of course she wants safe, legal sex work as well. Why is that a problem? As long as people aren't coerced/forced into it, where's the harm?
- ctrlp 3y agoIt would take a bit of time to explain why a society might not want to legalize, regulate, and tax vice. You might also want to do a deep dive into Libertarianism and consider whether it has ever made sense or could make sense for any society you might want to live in.
- johnchristopher 3y agoCould you point to some online references of what you are suggesting ? Otherwise you are also guilty of problematizing the subject without offering answers or theories :).
- bradlys 3y agoI often wonder who the audience is for subjects like this. One where someone essentially is what I’d consider a shit stirrer. I’m referencing the articles by Amia - not the summarizations here. Part of me thinks it’s maybe interesting to bring up to people who have a genuine openness and are unaware of such subjects. But then it feels like to even read a collection of said articles, you must be a bit in the know about these subjects already if not a complete nerd about them. I’ve seen this type of “I’m just asking questions” talk in many places and it does feel disingenuous almost exclusively. It’s quite rare to see a completely balanced take where they have no idea what the correct solution is. It looks like in this collection, Amia does give their own opinions even though they say at times they don’t have any idea what is best. It rubs that it’s disingenuous. The problem is that I’d like to send such things along to people I know to get them more informed about various subjects but when there’s a slant as evident here - I never want to. So annoying that everyone has to shove their opinion into everything even when they act like they’re not. Just own it.
- vacuity 3y agoI think people should assume that authors don't provide balanced takes and read critically, but that might be asking too much. I don't really see the "I'm just asking questions" aspect. Do you have any examples?
- andai 3y ago(Tried posting this 5 hours ago, but the article was briefly "[dead]".) The article doesn't actually seem to touch on "the right to sex" (it mentions it once, as a position held by some incels). I thought that would be an interesting discussion, and especially how it relates to the "right to reproduce" (and the perception by some that it is impossible in the present economy). The two are connected, of course, by biological necessity. If no woman wants a man, then that man is unable to reproduce. I am told that in the semi-near future, it will be possible for such men to reproduce by means of artificial wombs. (And equally so for women, who do not wish to undergo pregnancy, yet desire children.)
- vacuity 3y agoI wonder how that would affect family structures. Children seem to need at least some kind of family structure that provides them with physical and emotional care, so it's worrying if this heralds less stability and greater neglect.
- andai 3y agoYeah. Arguably, only people well-adjusted enough to find a mate should be allowed to reproduce (i.e. you get the "approval" of at least one other human being).
- vacuity 3y agoHeh, that's the bare minimum. From what I've read, people who have bad family experiences (abuse, narcissism, etc.) tend to mirror that or find partners who do, and there are plenty of outdated norms besides.