4 ms·

+1, but minus the long distance maglev. The strength of cities lies in their density. A well planned city has short commutes. Long distance transport ought to

+1, but minus the long distance maglev. The strength of cities lies in their density. A well planned city has short commutes. Long distance transport ought to be mostly for goods, not people. If people travel far, travel slow and enjoy the journey. Relying on fast long distance (business) travel is a sign of organizational immaturity at some level.

troupo 3y ago
I don't want to travel fast and slow from Stockholm to, say, Copenhagen, or to Hamburg when I visit friends or family. I want to get to the destination, fast.
- mwbajor 3y ago
  Exactly. Its almost like decentralized systems are more efficient.
- pipo234 3y ago
  This is what we do, but why? What is it exactly that we hate so much about traveling? Personally, I hate traffic jams, cancelled trains, flight delays. But I love spending time hiking, cycling, or driving through the empty country at my own pace. More so if I get to spend time with friends and family, for sure.
  - throwuwu 3y ago
    If the goal of your trip is to hike then fine, hike. But if you’re visiting family that you only see for a few days out of a year you want to maximize that time with them.
    - pipo234 3y ago
      If they live far ways, you might consider visiting them only once in two years, spending twice as long. During the pandemic, may people were force to do this and found other ways to stay in touch, like Zoom. (I wouldn't claim that the perfect solution, or good at all. Just something to consider.)
      - throwuwu 3y ago
        So instead of seeing them 20 more times before they die you see them 10 more times. Better make every second count.
  - troupo 3y ago
    > This is what we do, but why? Because fast travel is... fast? > What is it exactly that we hate so much about traveling? Most of slow travel is extremely boring. > But I love spending time hiking, cycling, or driving through the empty country at my own pace. I enjoy those things, too, but I don't want to spend a week traveling somewhere when we have the means to travel there in under a day, for example. Edit: besides, cheap fast travel allows you to spread people to more places, and not require them to bunch up in a few overpopulated cities.
ryukafalz 3y ago
The thing is, if you don’t have the train, people will fly. And the carbon emissions of flying is massively greater than that of taking a train. I would be in favor of banning flights between city pairs that already have an equivalently high-quality rail link between them, though.
- pipo234 3y ago
  Use train when you can. Trains are getting better and in Europe there is finally talk of prohibiting airlines on short-distance (<500km) flights. But making trains faster and faster will not improve things as they'll also compete with other forms of transportation (cars, slower trains). If the faster train now gets you 800km in 3 hours, people will travel 800k where previously they spent that time traveling only 500km. It's Parkinson's law.
  - ryukafalz 3y ago
    Maybe. I wonder which effect dominates if there's already a faster form of transportation that you're trying to replace though.
sokoloff 3y ago
> Relying on fast long distance (business) travel is a sign of organizational immaturity at some level. What you say is true, but also a condition that is spectacularly unlikely to change. Separately, for personal travel, I will sometimes travel low-and-slow, but there are many personal trips where I want to go somewhere for a long-weekend and getting half-way there and turning around doesn't accomplish the goal of the weekend. Even for a week-long vacation, I don't want to spend 4 days getting there and back.
- pipo234 3y ago
  > What you say is true, but also a condition that is spectacularly unlikely to change. Unfortunately, you're probably right. Still I don't believe high-speed maglev will solve anything. Less planes, for sure but more people traveling further, more frequently, more efficiently consuming more power in absolutes. > Even for a week-long vacation, I don't want to spend 4 days getting there and back. I understand, and feel the same. But I do my best to find a closer destination that's "also" nice, and make sure that when I travel far only when I have proportional amount of time to spend there.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    > I do my best to find a closer destination that's "also" nice When you're trying to escape New England winter weather and get to someplace warm with 11+ hour days (or escape the heat and humidity of Florida in August or visit family), that can be inherently difficult.
    - pipo234 3y ago
      Sure, different people in different situations have different standards. Not everyone has the luxury of living in a great city with access to food, energy, jobs and family and friends close by. Makes you wonder how people in New England winter or Florida summer used to cope a century ago. :-)
throwuwu 3y ago
People travel for lots of reasons, many of them urgent. You’ll never have everything you need within walking distance, at some point something will be required that is far away whether it’s the birth of a child, a critical piece of equipment, or an expert needed on site. This happens far more frequently than you would think even if it doesn’t happen to you often.
j-pb 3y ago
Maglevs are great though when combined with build-in solar. They become energy positive and can replace entire power plants in terms of capacity even on short-ish routes. Solar roadways are a crappy idea because asphalt and solar panels have completely different engineering requirements, and roads don't even have buildin electrical lines. No contact, no moving part, already electrified and pylonified maglev on the other hand...

troupo 3y ago

I don't want to travel fast and slow from Stockholm to, say, Copenhagen, or to Hamburg when I visit friends or family. I want to get to the destination, fast.

mwbajor 3y ago
Exactly. Its almost like decentralized systems are more efficient.
pipo234 3y ago
This is what we do, but why? What is it exactly that we hate so much about traveling? Personally, I hate traffic jams, cancelled trains, flight delays. But I love spending time hiking, cycling, or driving through the empty country at my own pace. More so if I get to spend time with friends and family, for sure.
- throwuwu 3y ago
  If the goal of your trip is to hike then fine, hike. But if you’re visiting family that you only see for a few days out of a year you want to maximize that time with them.
  - pipo234 3y ago
    If they live far ways, you might consider visiting them only once in two years, spending twice as long. During the pandemic, may people were force to do this and found other ways to stay in touch, like Zoom. (I wouldn't claim that the perfect solution, or good at all. Just something to consider.)
    - throwuwu 3y ago
      So instead of seeing them 20 more times before they die you see them 10 more times. Better make every second count.
- troupo 3y ago
  > This is what we do, but why? Because fast travel is... fast? > What is it exactly that we hate so much about traveling? Most of slow travel is extremely boring. > But I love spending time hiking, cycling, or driving through the empty country at my own pace. I enjoy those things, too, but I don't want to spend a week traveling somewhere when we have the means to travel there in under a day, for example. Edit: besides, cheap fast travel allows you to spread people to more places, and not require them to bunch up in a few overpopulated cities.

ryukafalz 3y ago

The thing is, if you don’t have the train, people will fly. And the carbon emissions of flying is massively greater than that of taking a train. I would be in favor of banning flights between city pairs that already have an equivalently high-quality rail link between them, though.

pipo234 3y ago
Use train when you can. Trains are getting better and in Europe there is finally talk of prohibiting airlines on short-distance (<500km) flights. But making trains faster and faster will not improve things as they'll also compete with other forms of transportation (cars, slower trains). If the faster train now gets you 800km in 3 hours, people will travel 800k where previously they spent that time traveling only 500km. It's Parkinson's law.
- ryukafalz 3y ago
  Maybe. I wonder which effect dominates if there's already a faster form of transportation that you're trying to replace though.

sokoloff 3y ago

> Relying on fast long distance (business) travel is a sign of organizational immaturity at some level. What you say is true, but also a condition that is spectacularly unlikely to change. Separately, for personal travel, I will sometimes travel low-and-slow, but there are many personal trips where I want to go somewhere for a long-weekend and getting half-way there and turning around doesn't accomplish the goal of the weekend. Even for a week-long vacation, I don't want to spend 4 days getting there and back.

pipo234 3y ago
> What you say is true, but also a condition that is spectacularly unlikely to change. Unfortunately, you're probably right. Still I don't believe high-speed maglev will solve anything. Less planes, for sure but more people traveling further, more frequently, more efficiently consuming more power in absolutes. > Even for a week-long vacation, I don't want to spend 4 days getting there and back. I understand, and feel the same. But I do my best to find a closer destination that's "also" nice, and make sure that when I travel far only when I have proportional amount of time to spend there.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  > I do my best to find a closer destination that's "also" nice When you're trying to escape New England winter weather and get to someplace warm with 11+ hour days (or escape the heat and humidity of Florida in August or visit family), that can be inherently difficult.
  - pipo234 3y ago
    Sure, different people in different situations have different standards. Not everyone has the luxury of living in a great city with access to food, energy, jobs and family and friends close by. Makes you wonder how people in New England winter or Florida summer used to cope a century ago. :-)

throwuwu 3y ago

People travel for lots of reasons, many of them urgent. You’ll never have everything you need within walking distance, at some point something will be required that is far away whether it’s the birth of a child, a critical piece of equipment, or an expert needed on site. This happens far more frequently than you would think even if it doesn’t happen to you often.

j-pb 3y ago

Maglevs are great though when combined with build-in solar. They become energy positive and can replace entire power plants in terms of capacity even on short-ish routes. Solar roadways are a crappy idea because asphalt and solar panels have completely different engineering requirements, and roads don't even have buildin electrical lines. No contact, no moving part, already electrified and pylonified maglev on the other hand...