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I don't want every ICE car replaced with an electric one. I want liveable, walkable cities, with good bike infrastructure, proper public transport, trees, parks
by j-pb 3y ago
I don't want every ICE car replaced with an electric one.
I want liveable, walkable cities, with good bike infrastructure, proper public transport, trees, parks, and public spaces. And fast long distance maglev.
And whatever remains should be electric.
- turnsout 3y agoThis! Don’t build charger networks—build canals and plant trees.
- AlexandrB 3y agoUnfortunately there's already a backlash brewing against "15 minute cities"[1][2]. I wonder how much of this stuff is "organic" and how much is astroturf. [1] https://rairfoundation.com/british-protest-15-minute-cities-where-they-will-become-prisoners-of-the-state/ https://rairfoundation.com/british-protest-15-minute-cities-... [2] https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-edmonton-15-minute-city-protests/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-edmonton-15-m...
- padjo 3y agoI think that backlash is mostly from the “5g is globalist plot to control us” folks. Although given one of those people is running for the Democratic nomination maybe it’s not as safe to ignore them as I think…
- Goronmon 3y agoI think that backlash is mostly from the “5g is globalist plot to control us” folks. I've definitely seen it framed as a "left-wing" plot that the right/Republicans need to fight against. Same thing as the fight against LGBTQ+ rights, abortion rights, etc.
- ZeroGravitas 3y agoIt's sadly a mainstream right-wing talking point these days. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-02/how-did-the-15-minute-city-get-tangled-up-in-a-far-right-conspiracy https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-02/how-did-t...
- mwbajor 3y agoI live in one of the few 15 minute cities and I hate it. You might as well live in a jail or a zoo. Are you envious of the lions that live in their cages? They have everything they need close by! Water, companionship, food, etc....
- AlexandrB 3y agoCan you elaborate on what's so bad about it? I lived in Toronto for a while and rarely had to drive because most things I needed were ~15 minutes away by subway/walking. It was awesome! It's not like someone is going to put an ankle monitor on you to prevent you from going further for stuff if you want to.
- mwbajor 3y agoCan you elaborate on what you want me to elaborate on? I've been to Toronto, its another "sick town" and nothing I say is going to change your mind if you think living like an ant is "awesome!"
- turnsout 3y agoI truly don't get this perspective. The value of living in a city is proximity to people and amenities. If you value something different, that's totally understandable, but why wouldn't you just move to the country?
- mwbajor 3y agoHeh, they always say "You're free to leave any time you want". When all we have is Maglev trains that go from one walkable city (e.g. jail) to another, how will you move to the country?
- turnsout 3y agoWell, looking around I see nothing but freeways and cars, so I don't think we're in any danger of the utopia you describe
- Izkata 3y agoThe backlash is real and is, at least partially, from how they're being implemented: Forceful restrictions instead of increased/local amenities.
- ryukafalz 3y agoIn many cases restrictions and amenities are two sides of the same coin. You often can't add bike infrastructure in cities without taking away something from drivers (travel lanes, parking, etc) because drivers are already given nearly all the space on our streets. Drivers will complain that they're being restricted whenever you take anything away from them. But people often can't get around safely on bikes without doing so; that bike infrastructure for those who would like to bike is a valuable amenity.
- throwuwu 3y agoHere’s a milquetoast take that might be more palatable https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-02/the-downsides-of-a-15-minute-city https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-02/the-downs...
- sMarsIntruder 3y agoYou know that the majority still lives outside cities, right? And the city attractiveness is getting worse every damn year, at least in the “west”.
- stavros 3y ago> And the city attractiveness is getting worse every damn year, at least in the “west”. Maybe that would change if US cities were, you know, livable? Europe is the "west" too, and the cities are a far cry better for people.
- Ultimatt 3y agoEveryone in the USA needs to take a pilgrimage to almost any city in the Netherlands.
- CCRpoundher 3y agoCool. I would love to live in the country. Have internet and work remote. Little farm and grow some of my own food. Use solar and wind to power my EV Ford-150.
- piva00 3y agoIf 100+ million Americans lives in cities, making cities not requiring cars to live in them is a pretty good plus, no? Rural people can keep having their vehicles if they need them, GP didn't say anything against that.
- Izkata 3y ago> making cities not requiring cars to live in them is a pretty good plus, no? Some cities are doing this, but they're not the ones attempting 15-minute cities. The 15-minute cities are doing things like putting up barricades to make driving more of a pain, without actually making them more livable in those confined locations.
- piva00 3y ago
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- cypress66 3y agoPeople like different things. Some people like high density urban areas, and some people like low density urban areas. We should have both so people can enjoy what they like.
- gaff33 3y agoThe problem is that low density urban areas are subsidsed by high densisty urban areas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IsMeKl-Sv0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IsMeKl-Sv0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVUeqxXwCA0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVUeqxXwCA0 etc They are also terrible for the planet.
- mwbajor 3y agoSo does my ant colony analogy apply here? When do we get to move into our hexagonal cell I mean house? You know, bees use hexagons because they are the most efficient use of space. But please do keep using the "redneck" trope. We're all uneducated hillbillies that obviously aren't as smart and sophisticated as everyone else.
- turnsout 3y agoIt's true! Some people don't mind or even like climate change—don't they count? What about the flat earthers? We should have a city for them with school districts that cater to their beliefs. Some people abuse animals—where's their city? People should be able to enjoy what they like!
- pipo234 3y ago+1, but minus the long distance maglev. The strength of cities lies in their density. A well planned city has short commutes. Long distance transport ought to be mostly for goods, not people. If people travel far, travel slow and enjoy the journey. Relying on fast long distance (business) travel is a sign of organizational immaturity at some level.
- troupo 3y agoI don't want to travel fast and slow from Stockholm to, say, Copenhagen, or to Hamburg when I visit friends or family. I want to get to the destination, fast.
- mwbajor 3y agoExactly. Its almost like decentralized systems are more efficient.
- pipo234 3y agoThis is what we do, but why? What is it exactly that we hate so much about traveling? Personally, I hate traffic jams, cancelled trains, flight delays. But I love spending time hiking, cycling, or driving through the empty country at my own pace. More so if I get to spend time with friends and family, for sure.
- throwuwu 3y agoIf the goal of your trip is to hike then fine, hike. But if you’re visiting family that you only see for a few days out of a year you want to maximize that time with them.
- pipo234 3y agoIf they live far ways, you might consider visiting them only once in two years, spending twice as long. During the pandemic, may people were force to do this and found other ways to stay in touch, like Zoom. (I wouldn't claim that the perfect solution, or good at all. Just something to consider.)
- freedude 3y agoWhat have you done to ensure your city is "liveable, walkable cities, with good bike infrastructure, proper public transport, trees, parks, and public spaces. And fast long distance maglev."? How are you moving public policy and private investment towards this goal? In my limited experience wanting it isn't enough. These types of changes require action.