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‘It’s the Wild West’: Vienna’s spying problem spins out of control
- rob74 3y agohttps://archive.is/1hQL2 https://archive.is/1hQL2
- Guthur 3y agoGood on Austria, don't play their silly games. They just want to rob you blind like they're doing to everyone else.
- keiferski 3y agoVienna, a city synonymous with shady cold war intrigue... If you are curious what that was like, I highly recommend Orson Welles' film The Third Man, which is set in post-war Vienna. You can even visit the sewers where part of the film takes place. (I recommend it, but be aware that it isn't fancy.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Man https://www.wien.gv.at/english/environment/sewer-system/third-man/ https://www.wien.gv.at/english/environment/sewer-system/thir...
- rainworld 3y ago[flagged]
- smcl 3y agoLet's maybe dial it back with the slurs
- metacritic12 3y agoIs Anglo a slur?
- bitsinthesky 3y agoI guess it's a fairly non-offensive slur, but still essentially a disparagement of a group of people
- ARandomerDude 3y agoThe word England literally comes from the word. It was originally called Englaland, meaning “land of the Angles.” https://www.etymonline.com/word/England#etymonline_v_8677 https://www.etymonline.com/word/England#etymonline_v_8677
- bitsinthesky 3y agoIf it was wanted to refer to the English, who are closest to the ones 'running' the Economist and FT (lol), then one should say English. Let's switch it over to talk about Russians, but replace for them the word Slav, which is also a real word. To say, "Slavs trying to undermine the EU with their backroom corruption and espionage, long standing tradition." would be 1) weird 2) pretty racist and 3) the word Slav would sound like a slur.
- rainworld 3y agoIt means Brits + Americans (and occasionally other anglophone countries too), no reason to overthink it. To be fair, I should have added the NYTimes to that list because it very much belongs to it.
- 3y ago
- qwytw 3y ago> Anglos trying Almost almost every other country in the EU
- MR4D 3y agoIf you read the article, it seems to be the huge amount of Russian spying that is causing the issue. So much so that western countries don't like sharing intelligence with Austria. As far as "Anglos", Americans are barely even mentioned in the article.
- TheCapeGreek 3y agoI mean, Anglos isn't exclusively US.
- mistrial9 3y agounlike say, Facebook ?
- woooooo 3y agoIt's the Economist. They are honest and direct about their biases and the "pro five eyes" angle can be assumed.
- masswerk 3y agoThis is a bit of a spin, though. There are huge concerns regarding non-disclosed NSA cooperations, circumventing parliamentary oversight, as well, e.g., on the side of the Neos cited in the article. (This is actually the major vector.) Concerns regarding sharing of intelligence, on the other hand, originated from the participation of the FPÖ (the right-wing freedom party with established links to Putin's Russia party) in the last coalition and their strong influence on the security apparatus (including a few scandals). Also, a minister from the conservative side of that coalition had invited Putin privately to their wedding, who actually came, with presents in hand… As it is now, with the FPÖ leading in polls in the leeway of COVID and maybe heading the next government, this article may also be understood as a call to arms. (PS: If you don't know about the local situation or domestic politics, please, still refrain from down-voting, just because.)
- baq 3y agoIt’s been a running joke for years now that Austrian intelligence is a branch of GRU.
- rainworld 3y agoIt’s also a running joke that entire political parties can be considered fronts of the CIA. The German Greens are a particularly unsubtle example but there are others. The spookery in Europe didn’t end in 1990, quite the opposite, but only one side’s actions are being made issue of these days.
- q87b 3y ago> The German Greens are a particularly unsubtle example but there are others. Got any reasonable substance to that wild and typically Russian troll claim?
- sam_lowry_ 3y agoI guess they refer to the highly successful anti-nuclear FUD campaigns by German Greens. I am appaled how irrational Germans are wrt the nuclear power. Even in 2023.
- q87b 3y agoWhy would the CIA be anti-nuclear in Germany?
- red-iron-pine 3y agoIndeed. All it did was push them to be MORE dependent on Russian gas. If anything, this is a play from Moscow
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- 3y ago
- dist-epoch 3y ago[flagged]
- LatteLazy 3y agoUm... Good. Given the amount of posturing on both sides, the actual shooting war in Ukraine and the nuclear arsenals involved, it seems like a public service to facilitate both sides actually knowing what the other side actually thinks and what their actual red lines are.
- automatic6131 3y ago[flagged]
- juicypt 3y agoThe parent comment could be the beginning of an interesting discussion on cold war dynamics. Wouldn't you rather engage with that and gain something from the discussion, than take a cheap shot at the author for a quick giggle?
- vuln 3y agoThe cheap shot requires zero critical thinking so you’ll find a certain type of people drawn to that character defect.
- qwytw 3y agoYou're assuming (for some unknown reason) that both sides are acting rationally? Would you care to elaborate on that?
- LatteLazy 3y agoI don't think I am, am I? Sorry if I am missing your point. I am just saying you want to know whether they're actually irrational or just pretending (which is often rational). And when Putin says "X is a red line" you want to KNOW whether he means it or not. And it's likely a good thing for him to know the same about Biden. Good in this context is defined as avoiding nuclear war. Whether it means winning a particular point in Ukraine or not... Sorry Ukraine.
- ofrzeta 3y agoI don't quite get what they are "spying" there, as there's probably no specific information to get there. From the article the Russians are meeting German informants there, ok. Then there's the issue with SIGINT on the roofs of Russian embassy etc. Is there anything to be got that can not be collected anywhere else, specifically in Russia?
- sn41 3y agoDuring the cold war, Austria was the on border between the Soviet bloc and the West. Historically, the Austro-Hungarian empire had a lot of territories in Central Europe, which has strong ties to Russia as well. I am guessing that some of the links are still there.
- mstolpm 3y agoVienna is full of international organizations from UNO to OPEC: https://wien-io.diplo.de/iow-en/international-organizations https://wien-io.diplo.de/iow-en/international-organizations
- hilbert42 3y agoRight, having once worked there, it was obvious to me these organizations provided the perfect opportunity for contact without raising red flags. (No, that wasn't my job, my work was far too prosaic for that.) Re comment "...has once again become the espionage capital of Europe after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine — and Austria’s government seems in no rush to change that." It's obvious why not, to do so would instantly tread on the toes of these organizations and that's just not going to happen.
- rurban 3y agoThis is replaced by Brussels for long, with the EU and NATO headquarters there. Most of the spying is happening there nowadays. Then Washington, then Geneva. But all the known Russian spies were not sent home, so the West is angry.
- johannes1234321 3y ago
- fithisux 3y agoI remember Austrians imprisoned un-subjugated people at home. No surprises.
- AnimalMuppet 3y agoWhat, specifically, are you referring to? And why do you think it's relevant to the current discussion?
- yycc9866tfbvxd 3y ago[dead]
- thsksbd 3y agoThe article pearl clutches w/out stating why Vienna is a spying hub (no, its not the intl. orgs there). Hint - legally Austria is not, in the words of the article, "allies" with the West.
- eigenket 3y agoLegally Austria is part of the European Union and a founding member of the OECD. Its not just "allies with" the West. It is part of the west.
- rob74 3y agoPolitically, yes. From a military point of view, it has committed itself to neutrality - it's mostly forgotten that after the end of WW2, Austria (and Vienna) were also divided in occupation zones, similar to Germany (and Berlin) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied-occupied_Austria https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied-occupied_Austria. This occupation was already ended in 1955, but only at the price of committing to stay neutral "forever". And it looks like they still feel bound by this commitment...
- eigenket 3y agoAustrian neutrality has changed a lot over the years. They're part of the EU's common foreign and security policy, part of which is "Permanent Structured Cooperation" (because the EU, as much as I love it, absolutely sucks at naming stuff). Third countries can participate in PESCO and the US, UK, Canada and Turkey have applied to join in (i.e. its very closely tied with NATO). There are currently Austrian troops in the NATO-led KFOR force in Kosovo and as part of the EU force in Bosnia and Herzegovina. TLDR: yeah they're "neutral" but the meaning of that word changes fairly significantly depending on the context.
- thsksbd 3y agoI said allied with the West. Austria, as the heart of the Holy Roman Empire, is very much part of the West. Austria's Westerness has nothing to do with the silly institutions you listed and everything to do with Her history. But the context is spying, armies and war. So let's do NATO next and, generally, military alliances. Austria is constitutionally obliged not to enter into alliances that compromise her neutrality. This constitutional clause was insisted upon by the Soviets (in early the 50s? Late 40s?) for them to agree for the return of Austria's sovereignty. The other three occupying powers agreed and Austria became independent. An Austria that reneges on military neutrality technically reneges on her sovereignty. The FT's article was clearly talking about military alliances therefore was grossly inaccurate when it deemed Austria an "western" ally. Austria is de jure, both according to national and international law, a neutral country. Her neutrality is more caked into law than Switzerland's.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bombolo 3y agopaywalled
- Traubenfuchs 3y agoMail us your CV if you want to work in this industry in Austria or the close central European area and 1) you are not squeamish, 2) you hold no strong political or national views and 3) you either enjoy this kind of work or can keep negative personal feelings about this kind of work hidden (=tasks at work are more important that your ethics or morals -> no Snowden wannabes). We are looking for anything from butlers, private cooks over ex-military to computer scientists, software engineers and mathematicians. Training on the job and good benefits are part of the deal, a deep background check and absolute confidentiality are essential for survival. nzwuhgywjooqvqmasc@cazlg.com
- bradreaves2 3y agoNice try, domestic intelligence service.
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