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I discovered I have this by reading an article about it in Scientific American. It completely blew my mind. I thought “visualizing” was a figure of speech, and

I discovered I have this by reading an article about it in Scientific American. It completely blew my mind. I thought “visualizing” was a figure of speech, and was shocked to realize that people actually form images in their mind. I’m also a photographer, and pre-visualizing shots in my mind doesn’t happen the way I’ve heard others describe their process. I immerse myself in the scene, taking everything in as fully as I can while moving around until I experience the shot/composition I want. This turned into a kind of mindfulness for me that has led to a much deeper appreciation of the natural beauty everywhere. I do wonder what’s it’d be like to visualize, but lacking this ability has been interesting in its own way.

lacrimacida 3y ago
As as painter with aphantantasia myself I have a similar experience to yours and do find my own experience to be interesting and not lacking in any way, though it’s impossible to make the comparsion to non aphantasiacs. I feel that I do have an imagination and mind’s eye in my own way somehow connected to intuition, hard to describe into words but it’s like there’s a vail that obstructs the minds eye but I can feel what’s behind it. When I paint I am excited to see what emerges as if the veil is slowly dissolving. One thing that I have a hard time with as an aphantasiac is mostly reading books with extensive descriptive imagery, lots of minitious details…
- mysterydip 3y ago
  One of the things that kept me from pursuing art as a hobby was my skill of drawing couldn't match the detail and fidelity of the image in my head I wanted to draw, frustrating and discouraging me. With aphantasia, how was your experience starting out?
  - lacrimacida 3y ago
    I started painting accidentally more or less. I have to say my experience was empowering and boundless on an imaginary scale. I enter flow state so easily at this point but the first time I stumbled onto it I painted for 12 hours straight and I didn’t feel tired nor did I feel excited about what I produced, I was just calm and pleased with the experience - it felt like a therapeutic purge. The second time I attempted to do it I failed and felt frustrated. Eventually I understood how to enter that ‘door’ and started preparing before each session. Once in a while Im not in the right state of mind and I stop the session, find something else to do with my time. Another painter told me this is a known thing and he described an exerice he was showing his students: take a piece of paper, a pencil and draw circles of any kinds, small circles, large circles, circumscribed circles, most likely the shape doesn’t matter but the repetitive mindless action. He said in half an hour or so you’d want add something to that shape, then add something else after which one can let go of the exercise and just let the flow take over. Never tried the exercise myself but I see it working. When I paint I have my own preparation ritual. This works in other areas such as programming, though the experience is slightly different. With afantasia though I found that what’s what’s holding me back is picturing other peoples code model in my head and often I feel a map would help.
- vidarh 3y ago
  I tend to skip descriptive imagery, and prefer books that give more play to ideas. I've also written two novels (self-published sci-fi) and one of the "benefits" of self-publishing was that I got to make the commercially stupid (but it's not like self-published niche sci fi would ever sell all that much; if I was writing for the money I'd write something more commercial and submit it to a trad publisher) decision of ignoring my editor when she made "suggestions" about the amount of exposition. She was right to raise it. There's "too much". I know there is, and it's there because I that is what I love reading. But I suspect that is in large part exactly because without seeing images when I read less abstract parts of the books, I'm not used to the world building etc. taking "time away" from the visuals because they don't to me.
  - lacrimacida 3y ago
    Yeah, with more open ended descriptions my blind imagination has no problem filling out any gaps. When I was younger I was frustrated and kept at it but to no avail. When I found out there was a time writers were paid per words / volume I became very selective in what I read. If it didn’t jive I’d skip. If the whole book was like that I’d skip entirely. As a writer you should be true to yourself with the downside that your work would only cater to likeminded people and aside from not having larger audiences I see no probelm in that. Trying to be something you’re not is not fruitful
    - vidarh 3y ago
      Yeah, I'm fortunate enough to have a good job and write mostly because I enjoy it, and it's liberating to not have to listen (though sometimes it's worth thinking through of it's because of preference or ego). I can't imagine trying to make a living from it - it's an incredibly tough business.
      - onemoresoop 3y ago
        You don't need to make living from it but you can live through it. Best way to develop yourself into the person you're supposed to be. Once money comes into the picture it messes everything up.
vidarh 3y ago
Same here. Also thought it was a figure of speech. Though I often think of myself as visualizing things, it's more of a spatial awareness and recollection of attributes, never actually visual.
- neom 3y ago
  I’m soooo curious what that’s like!! Can you recall memories as pictures or movies? My memory is totally visual so I’m really curious how recall works for people who can’t visualize things? How do you remember stuff??
  - causi 3y ago
    Also wondering if aphantasiacs have trouble with imagining voices, sounds, music. Do they ever get songs stuck in their head?
    - haswell 3y ago
      I have a bad visual memory. But when I remember things, instead of seeing things, it’s a general sense of knowing, and at times a sense of feeling. If you asked me what it was like on the beach last weekend, I could tell you it was sandy, there was a vivid sunset, and there were a lot of people. I don’t see these things, I just know them. If you asked me to describe the sunset in more detail, I might recall moments that stood out to me (there was this moment when the sun was creating this mile-long reflection from a building on the other side of the water), but that highlight is separate from the general recollection of the experience, i.e. it doesn’t come from looking back at the sunset itself, it’s an independent thing that stands out in my mind about the experience. I don’t believe I actually “hear” sounds/my inner dialog, but sounds are easier to work with in my head. I’m musically inclined, and good at improvising on the piano. But I think the sounds I “hear” are closer to a reflection of the feelings I feel when hearing those sounds. This is hard to describe, but if I wanted to intentionally imagine a melody, I can almost feel it in the back of my throat, as if my imagination of the sound is the feeling of what it’d be like to make that sound with my own voice. I do get songs stuck in my head, but within this framework of imagining the feelings associated with the sounds. I used to think I could hear these sounds, but closer observation over the years since I realized I have visual Aphantasia has revealed that it’s not so clear-cut. In the same way I thought I was “visualizing” by bringing feelings/knowledge about something to the surface. I have an over-active internal dialog, but this also seems to manifest as some kind of reflection of the feelings associated with the thoughts. I understand the thoughts I’m thinking, but they’re more ephemeral than a voice.
tiborsaas 3y ago
I'm confused, I can "visualize" images in my head, memories or new things both. I know how everything fits together, I can have this "image" even with my eyes open. I can draw them, recall details and context. However, when I close my eyes I see dark perlin noise and nothing else. So maybe it is figure of speech? Here's a visual test, but before clicking just imagine a red five-pointed star: https://curingaphantasia.com/free-aphantasia-test/ https://curingaphantasia.com/free-aphantasia-test/
- haswell 3y ago
  The only way I can make new things with my eyes open is to draw them. I’ve come to rely on visualization tools to help make sense of ideas. I love endless canvas tools like Miro because I can actually work with ideas. When I close my eyes, I see #1. Eyes open vs. eyes closed are two vastly different modes for the brain to operate in. It seems that so much of what we see is based on context, it makes some sense that a fully populated visual field would provide more anchors for thought/visualization. Depending on where you fall on the visualization spectrum, some people have reported the ability to improve their visualization abilities by practicing “Image Streaming” [0], which to me looks like a form of attention training/mindfulness. Editing to add: that site rubs me a bit the wrong way. He’s selling memberships to content that claims to “cure” Aphantasia, but we don’t even understand how Aphantasia works, or if having it is even a “bad” thing. In any case, it seems wise not to limit your exploration to this particular site. - [0] https://photographyinsider.info/image-streaming-for-photographers/ https://photographyinsider.info/image-streaming-for-photogra...
- reportgunner 3y ago
  Even before clicking your link I imagined a red five-pointed star. With my eyes open it looked like image number 6, except the five points where a bit longer/sharper angle. Closing my eyes (also before clicking your link) resulted in something equivalent to 4.
- vidarh 3y ago
  I'm firmly a 1.

lacrimacida 3y ago

As as painter with aphantantasia myself I have a similar experience to yours and do find my own experience to be interesting and not lacking in any way, though it’s impossible to make the comparsion to non aphantasiacs. I feel that I do have an imagination and mind’s eye in my own way somehow connected to intuition, hard to describe into words but it’s like there’s a vail that obstructs the minds eye but I can feel what’s behind it. When I paint I am excited to see what emerges as if the veil is slowly dissolving. One thing that I have a hard time with as an aphantasiac is mostly reading books with extensive descriptive imagery, lots of minitious details…

mysterydip 3y ago
One of the things that kept me from pursuing art as a hobby was my skill of drawing couldn't match the detail and fidelity of the image in my head I wanted to draw, frustrating and discouraging me. With aphantasia, how was your experience starting out?
- lacrimacida 3y ago
  I started painting accidentally more or less. I have to say my experience was empowering and boundless on an imaginary scale. I enter flow state so easily at this point but the first time I stumbled onto it I painted for 12 hours straight and I didn’t feel tired nor did I feel excited about what I produced, I was just calm and pleased with the experience - it felt like a therapeutic purge. The second time I attempted to do it I failed and felt frustrated. Eventually I understood how to enter that ‘door’ and started preparing before each session. Once in a while Im not in the right state of mind and I stop the session, find something else to do with my time. Another painter told me this is a known thing and he described an exerice he was showing his students: take a piece of paper, a pencil and draw circles of any kinds, small circles, large circles, circumscribed circles, most likely the shape doesn’t matter but the repetitive mindless action. He said in half an hour or so you’d want add something to that shape, then add something else after which one can let go of the exercise and just let the flow take over. Never tried the exercise myself but I see it working. When I paint I have my own preparation ritual. This works in other areas such as programming, though the experience is slightly different. With afantasia though I found that what’s what’s holding me back is picturing other peoples code model in my head and often I feel a map would help.
vidarh 3y ago
I tend to skip descriptive imagery, and prefer books that give more play to ideas. I've also written two novels (self-published sci-fi) and one of the "benefits" of self-publishing was that I got to make the commercially stupid (but it's not like self-published niche sci fi would ever sell all that much; if I was writing for the money I'd write something more commercial and submit it to a trad publisher) decision of ignoring my editor when she made "suggestions" about the amount of exposition. She was right to raise it. There's "too much". I know there is, and it's there because I that is what I love reading. But I suspect that is in large part exactly because without seeing images when I read less abstract parts of the books, I'm not used to the world building etc. taking "time away" from the visuals because they don't to me.
- lacrimacida 3y ago
  Yeah, with more open ended descriptions my blind imagination has no problem filling out any gaps. When I was younger I was frustrated and kept at it but to no avail. When I found out there was a time writers were paid per words / volume I became very selective in what I read. If it didn’t jive I’d skip. If the whole book was like that I’d skip entirely. As a writer you should be true to yourself with the downside that your work would only cater to likeminded people and aside from not having larger audiences I see no probelm in that. Trying to be something you’re not is not fruitful
  - vidarh 3y ago
    Yeah, I'm fortunate enough to have a good job and write mostly because I enjoy it, and it's liberating to not have to listen (though sometimes it's worth thinking through of it's because of preference or ego). I can't imagine trying to make a living from it - it's an incredibly tough business.
    - onemoresoop 3y ago
      You don't need to make living from it but you can live through it. Best way to develop yourself into the person you're supposed to be. Once money comes into the picture it messes everything up.

vidarh 3y ago

Same here. Also thought it was a figure of speech. Though I often think of myself as visualizing things, it's more of a spatial awareness and recollection of attributes, never actually visual.

neom 3y ago
I’m soooo curious what that’s like!! Can you recall memories as pictures or movies? My memory is totally visual so I’m really curious how recall works for people who can’t visualize things? How do you remember stuff??
- causi 3y ago
  Also wondering if aphantasiacs have trouble with imagining voices, sounds, music. Do they ever get songs stuck in their head?
  - haswell 3y ago
    I have a bad visual memory. But when I remember things, instead of seeing things, it’s a general sense of knowing, and at times a sense of feeling. If you asked me what it was like on the beach last weekend, I could tell you it was sandy, there was a vivid sunset, and there were a lot of people. I don’t see these things, I just know them. If you asked me to describe the sunset in more detail, I might recall moments that stood out to me (there was this moment when the sun was creating this mile-long reflection from a building on the other side of the water), but that highlight is separate from the general recollection of the experience, i.e. it doesn’t come from looking back at the sunset itself, it’s an independent thing that stands out in my mind about the experience. I don’t believe I actually “hear” sounds/my inner dialog, but sounds are easier to work with in my head. I’m musically inclined, and good at improvising on the piano. But I think the sounds I “hear” are closer to a reflection of the feelings I feel when hearing those sounds. This is hard to describe, but if I wanted to intentionally imagine a melody, I can almost feel it in the back of my throat, as if my imagination of the sound is the feeling of what it’d be like to make that sound with my own voice. I do get songs stuck in my head, but within this framework of imagining the feelings associated with the sounds. I used to think I could hear these sounds, but closer observation over the years since I realized I have visual Aphantasia has revealed that it’s not so clear-cut. In the same way I thought I was “visualizing” by bringing feelings/knowledge about something to the surface. I have an over-active internal dialog, but this also seems to manifest as some kind of reflection of the feelings associated with the thoughts. I understand the thoughts I’m thinking, but they’re more ephemeral than a voice.

tiborsaas 3y ago

I'm confused, I can "visualize" images in my head, memories or new things both. I know how everything fits together, I can have this "image" even with my eyes open. I can draw them, recall details and context. However, when I close my eyes I see dark perlin noise and nothing else. So maybe it is figure of speech? Here's a visual test, but before clicking just imagine a red five-pointed star: https://curingaphantasia.com/free-aphantasia-test/ https://curingaphantasia.com/free-aphantasia-test/

haswell 3y ago
The only way I can make new things with my eyes open is to draw them. I’ve come to rely on visualization tools to help make sense of ideas. I love endless canvas tools like Miro because I can actually work with ideas. When I close my eyes, I see #1. Eyes open vs. eyes closed are two vastly different modes for the brain to operate in. It seems that so much of what we see is based on context, it makes some sense that a fully populated visual field would provide more anchors for thought/visualization. Depending on where you fall on the visualization spectrum, some people have reported the ability to improve their visualization abilities by practicing “Image Streaming” [0], which to me looks like a form of attention training/mindfulness. Editing to add: that site rubs me a bit the wrong way. He’s selling memberships to content that claims to “cure” Aphantasia, but we don’t even understand how Aphantasia works, or if having it is even a “bad” thing. In any case, it seems wise not to limit your exploration to this particular site. - [0] https://photographyinsider.info/image-streaming-for-photographers/ https://photographyinsider.info/image-streaming-for-photogra...
reportgunner 3y ago
Even before clicking your link I imagined a red five-pointed star. With my eyes open it looked like image number 6, except the five points where a bit longer/sharper angle. Closing my eyes (also before clicking your link) resulted in something equivalent to 4.
vidarh 3y ago
I'm firmly a 1.