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I took a peek at the moderation log and the banning of jart and their descendants was a real shitshow[1]. I’m sure a lot of legit folks lost their accounts, and

I took a peek at the moderation log and the banning of jart and their descendants was a real shitshow[1]. I’m sure a lot of legit folks lost their accounts, and most of the descendants weren’t even posting anything related to APE or jart’s other projects. [1] https://lobste.rs/moderations https://lobste.rs/moderations

distcs 3y ago
Sockpuppets or voting rings may not be posting related posts/comments at the moment but they could in future. And they could be silently +1-ing each other's posts/comments which you can't see but mods can. I've done moderating work when phpbb forums had their heydey. The clever sockpuppet accounts or voting rings don't start posting about the projects of their main account right from the first day. The clever ones remain dormant, mostly idle, participating in other discussions. They look just like normal accounts. But much much later when the main account posts a "show project" post, the sockpuppets or voting rings add +1 or post a few words of praise and then move on to commenting on +1-ing other posts. And voting rings become more difficult to detect when they don't post anything related, post unrelated stuff but quietly upvote the main account's posts/comments.
- supriyo-biswas 3y ago
  Without said things actually occurring, there is no reason to say that the accounts are acting as sock puppets.
  - distcs 3y ago
    Only 2 of all the banned accounts have been flagged as sock-puppeteers. You can't see the sockpuppetery anymore because the mod deletes their posts/comments. But the evidence is still there as negative points. Those profiles have negative points. So they must have posted something sometime, got downvoted, got flagged by users and got detected as sockpuppets. Sock puppet is only one possibility. Other possibility is legit accounts forming a voting ring. You and me cant see voting actions. Mods can. The mods have access to server access logs. Mods can see who +1-ed whose posts/comments. So if you need evidence for sock-puppetry or voting-ringery, try asking the mods about it. We can only speculate here. I'm only describing what I've found in the wild from my days of moderating (small) forums. I mean to say that only because you can't see the other accounts posting related posts/comments does not make them any more likely or any less likely to be sockpuppet or voting ring. They may be legit. But they could be a ring. Or they may be legit. Only the mods with the access logs can tell.
jart 3y ago
It's because I'm an insomniac. When normies are sleeping, I'm running around setting up franchises. One of my other sock puppet accounts that got banned by Lobsters is Paul Kulchenko, who isn't actually the genius who built ZeroBrane Studio https://studio.zerobrane.com/ https://studio.zerobrane.com/, but is just me pretending to be a Windows developer when I can't fall asleep. Lobsters also banned Hikaru Ikuta (woodrush), who isn't actually a PhD at the University of Tokyo who discovered the lambda calculus expression for LISP https://woodrush.github.io/blog/lambdalisp.html https://woodrush.github.io/blog/lambdalisp.html, he's clearly just another one of my sockpuppet accounts I created due to being an insomniac. Those are the sorts of stories we've been sharing with the Lobsters community, and we'd been received very positively until now. I'm disheartened by how the recent unexpected actions of this rogue moderator will impact the wonderful community that had been nothing but kind to us.
- distcs 3y ago
  This is a terrible misrepresentation of the mod logs. Your comment seems to be creating a strawman. All the accounts you wrote in your comment were not banned for being sockpuppets. They were banned for spamming (whatever that means). Totally different things. Nobody said they were sockpuppets. Only you are saying that in an attempt to create a strawman and mislead unsuspecting readers. We are not idiots. The two accounts that were banned for sock-puppeteering were 'i2' and 'thatworkshop'. And you have conveniently omitted these two accounts from your comment. What do you have to say about them? You invited them. And they were sock-puppetting? How do you explain that?
  - jart 3y ago
    i2 got banned from my community a long time ago so it doesn't surprise me that Lobsters would ban him too. I usually err on the side of trusting people, and sometimes that turns out to be a mistake. I take appropriate action when I need to. If anything I'm surprised it took Lobsters this long. Lobsters gave me no ability to rescind invites, so they shouldn't have held me and my friends responsible for what he did. Frankly I don't even know what that is. Lobsters also made no attempt to contact me or offer feedback. The mass ban came as a total surprise. I have no idea what I did and I wasn't granted any opportunity to make them happy.

distcs 3y ago

Sockpuppets or voting rings may not be posting related posts/comments at the moment but they could in future. And they could be silently +1-ing each other's posts/comments which you can't see but mods can. I've done moderating work when phpbb forums had their heydey. The clever sockpuppet accounts or voting rings don't start posting about the projects of their main account right from the first day. The clever ones remain dormant, mostly idle, participating in other discussions. They look just like normal accounts. But much much later when the main account posts a "show project" post, the sockpuppets or voting rings add +1 or post a few words of praise and then move on to commenting on +1-ing other posts. And voting rings become more difficult to detect when they don't post anything related, post unrelated stuff but quietly upvote the main account's posts/comments.

supriyo-biswas 3y ago
Without said things actually occurring, there is no reason to say that the accounts are acting as sock puppets.
- distcs 3y ago
  Only 2 of all the banned accounts have been flagged as sock-puppeteers. You can't see the sockpuppetery anymore because the mod deletes their posts/comments. But the evidence is still there as negative points. Those profiles have negative points. So they must have posted something sometime, got downvoted, got flagged by users and got detected as sockpuppets. Sock puppet is only one possibility. Other possibility is legit accounts forming a voting ring. You and me cant see voting actions. Mods can. The mods have access to server access logs. Mods can see who +1-ed whose posts/comments. So if you need evidence for sock-puppetry or voting-ringery, try asking the mods about it. We can only speculate here. I'm only describing what I've found in the wild from my days of moderating (small) forums. I mean to say that only because you can't see the other accounts posting related posts/comments does not make them any more likely or any less likely to be sockpuppet or voting ring. They may be legit. But they could be a ring. Or they may be legit. Only the mods with the access logs can tell.

jart 3y ago

It's because I'm an insomniac. When normies are sleeping, I'm running around setting up franchises. One of my other sock puppet accounts that got banned by Lobsters is Paul Kulchenko, who isn't actually the genius who built ZeroBrane Studio https://studio.zerobrane.com/ https://studio.zerobrane.com/, but is just me pretending to be a Windows developer when I can't fall asleep. Lobsters also banned Hikaru Ikuta (woodrush), who isn't actually a PhD at the University of Tokyo who discovered the lambda calculus expression for LISP https://woodrush.github.io/blog/lambdalisp.html https://woodrush.github.io/blog/lambdalisp.html, he's clearly just another one of my sockpuppet accounts I created due to being an insomniac. Those are the sorts of stories we've been sharing with the Lobsters community, and we'd been received very positively until now. I'm disheartened by how the recent unexpected actions of this rogue moderator will impact the wonderful community that had been nothing but kind to us.

distcs 3y ago
This is a terrible misrepresentation of the mod logs. Your comment seems to be creating a strawman. All the accounts you wrote in your comment were not banned for being sockpuppets. They were banned for spamming (whatever that means). Totally different things. Nobody said they were sockpuppets. Only you are saying that in an attempt to create a strawman and mislead unsuspecting readers. We are not idiots. The two accounts that were banned for sock-puppeteering were 'i2' and 'thatworkshop'. And you have conveniently omitted these two accounts from your comment. What do you have to say about them? You invited them. And they were sock-puppetting? How do you explain that?
- jart 3y ago
  i2 got banned from my community a long time ago so it doesn't surprise me that Lobsters would ban him too. I usually err on the side of trusting people, and sometimes that turns out to be a mistake. I take appropriate action when I need to. If anything I'm surprised it took Lobsters this long. Lobsters gave me no ability to rescind invites, so they shouldn't have held me and my friends responsible for what he did. Frankly I don't even know what that is. Lobsters also made no attempt to contact me or offer feedback. The mass ban came as a total surprise. I have no idea what I did and I wasn't granted any opportunity to make them happy.