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Netherlands is a wealthy developed nation; how did it get like what you describe? It sounds like a lack of enforcement, or some kind of problem with an unrecog

Netherlands is a wealthy developed nation; how did it get like what you describe? It sounds like a lack of enforcement, or some kind of problem with an unrecognized socioeconomic underclass. Here in Tokyo, this kind of problem with theft is unheard of. Most bike theft is just joy-riding, and is deterred by using a wheel lock (goes through the wheel spokes, so it can't be easily ridden). Of course, this is also a place where you can put your phone and wallet on a table in a cafe to reserve your seat while you're in the bathroom...

tnolet 3y ago
Everyone in NL has like 2.3 bikes on average. They are many times treated as essentially throw away items. Not for the up upmarket segment, but for the casual bikes.
avar 3y ago
(I immigrated to The Netherlands from another developed nation). It's weird, the main oddity is that it's just not considered theft in the same sense. Before E-Bikes took off ~10 years ago everyone living in a city had a €50-300 beater bike "omafiets" for commuting, if you went out you were expecting your bike to be stolen on occasion. So, you'd steal someone else's bike, either personally, or if you were downtown a junkie would ride past every 10 minutes offering a freshly stolen bike for €50 euros, which if you were smart you could easily haggle down to €5-20. When pressed (especially after a few drinks) almost every city dwelling Dutchie you meet will admit to having stolen a bike, or bought a "second hand" one that's obviously stolen. I'm talking about people who are well off, went to University etc. So bikes simply weren't personal property in the usual sense, and admitting to stealing one was no big deal, even if admitting in the same company to stealing a car would make you unemployable. People stole your bike. You stole theirs. It all worked out in the end. Now, this has really been upset by the E-Bike boom, now people are communiting in the same cities as 10 years ago, but on bikes costing 5-20x as much when adjusted for inflation. So there's been some adjustment, but not really. The police still don't care about your stolen bike, and realistically you'll face zero consequences if you buy and use a stolen bike.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  > When pressed (especially after a few drinks) almost every city dwelling Dutchie you meet will admit to having stolen a bike, or bought a "second hand" one that's obviously stolen. Complete bullshit. There are people that steal bikes and there are people that buy bikes they can reasonably assume have been stolen and then there is everybody else, where everybody else is by far the larger fraction. I've lived in Amsterdam for roughly half of my life and that statement really irks me, especially since you seem to use this as a fig-leaf for your own illegal behavior. The lack of enforcement against bike thieves is vexing, but not as vexing is people that move here and that then engage in criminal acts.

tnolet 3y ago

Everyone in NL has like 2.3 bikes on average. They are many times treated as essentially throw away items. Not for the up upmarket segment, but for the casual bikes.

avar 3y ago

(I immigrated to The Netherlands from another developed nation). It's weird, the main oddity is that it's just not considered theft in the same sense. Before E-Bikes took off ~10 years ago everyone living in a city had a €50-300 beater bike "omafiets" for commuting, if you went out you were expecting your bike to be stolen on occasion. So, you'd steal someone else's bike, either personally, or if you were downtown a junkie would ride past every 10 minutes offering a freshly stolen bike for €50 euros, which if you were smart you could easily haggle down to €5-20. When pressed (especially after a few drinks) almost every city dwelling Dutchie you meet will admit to having stolen a bike, or bought a "second hand" one that's obviously stolen. I'm talking about people who are well off, went to University etc. So bikes simply weren't personal property in the usual sense, and admitting to stealing one was no big deal, even if admitting in the same company to stealing a car would make you unemployable. People stole your bike. You stole theirs. It all worked out in the end. Now, this has really been upset by the E-Bike boom, now people are communiting in the same cities as 10 years ago, but on bikes costing 5-20x as much when adjusted for inflation. So there's been some adjustment, but not really. The police still don't care about your stolen bike, and realistically you'll face zero consequences if you buy and use a stolen bike.

jacquesm 3y ago
> When pressed (especially after a few drinks) almost every city dwelling Dutchie you meet will admit to having stolen a bike, or bought a "second hand" one that's obviously stolen. Complete bullshit. There are people that steal bikes and there are people that buy bikes they can reasonably assume have been stolen and then there is everybody else, where everybody else is by far the larger fraction. I've lived in Amsterdam for roughly half of my life and that statement really irks me, especially since you seem to use this as a fig-leaf for your own illegal behavior. The lack of enforcement against bike thieves is vexing, but not as vexing is people that move here and that then engage in criminal acts.