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There is also this recently discovered phenomena of aphantasia which is fascinating. Lot of people dont have mental images and grow up not even aware that other

by enugu 3y ago

There is also this recently discovered phenomena of aphantasia which is fascinating. Lot of people dont have mental images and grow up not even aware that others can form such images. Here's one interesting account. https://m.facebook.com/nt/screen/?params=%7B%22note_id%22%3A2862324277332876%7D&path=%2Fnotes%2Fnote%2F&paipv=0&eav=Afboz6jIZlxirHAHlctDVkh_pJu4aeo5aWfiCXqQLxTYZDm08WWqrD2lUx2tEJhQvS0&_rdr https://m.facebook.com/nt/screen/?params=%7B%22note_id%22%3A...

KMag 3y ago
A few years ago, my wife and I figured out she has aphantasia. Suddenly, it made sense why she has trouble with navigating, why I have to draw things for her so often rather than just explaining the shapes of the various parts and how they fit together, and also why she finds reading most books so boring. When she reads a book, any description of how things look just goes in one ear and out the other. When walking around a city, she can't overlay a mental map over what she's seeing. On the other hand, I've always had good 3D mental visualization, likely part of why I was drawn to Mechanical Engineering.
- EGreg 3y ago
  "On the other hand, I've always have good 3D mental visualization" It is also a difference between the sexes https://news.emory.edu/stories/2019/04/esc_gender_gap_spatial_reasoning/campus.html https://news.emory.edu/stories/2019/04/esc_gender_gap_spatia... although some studies claim women are just as good but use different strategies that take longer: https://neurosciencenews.com/spatial-cognition-sexes-15576/ https://neurosciencenews.com/spatial-cognition-sexes-15576/ possibly related: https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/intelligent-people-slower-solve-hard-problems/ https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/intelligent-people-slower-so...
- pcl 3y ago
  These aren’t necessarily related. I have aphantasia (am aphantastic?) but have a great sense of direction, and think very spatially. Just not with pictures or lines in a “mind’s eye”, as people call it.
  - godshatter 3y ago
    I like using the word "aphant" to describe myself in this context.
- vidarh 3y ago
  I have aphantasia, but significantly above average spatial reasoning. I'm not convinced those things are straightforwardly connected.
  - ravishi 3y ago
    Same. My brother doesn't have aphantasia, but he has some kind of "spatial dyslexia" as we call it. Not diagnosed, he just has really hard time thinking about spatial stuff, drawing and writing (related to the form of his "typeface", not to spelling).
haswell 3y ago
I discovered I have this by reading an article about it in Scientific American. It completely blew my mind. I thought “visualizing” was a figure of speech, and was shocked to realize that people actually form images in their mind. I’m also a photographer, and pre-visualizing shots in my mind doesn’t happen the way I’ve heard others describe their process. I immerse myself in the scene, taking everything in as fully as I can while moving around until I experience the shot/composition I want. This turned into a kind of mindfulness for me that has led to a much deeper appreciation of the natural beauty everywhere. I do wonder what’s it’d be like to visualize, but lacking this ability has been interesting in its own way.
- lacrimacida 3y ago
  As as painter with aphantantasia myself I have a similar experience to yours and do find my own experience to be interesting and not lacking in any way, though it’s impossible to make the comparsion to non aphantasiacs. I feel that I do have an imagination and mind’s eye in my own way somehow connected to intuition, hard to describe into words but it’s like there’s a vail that obstructs the minds eye but I can feel what’s behind it. When I paint I am excited to see what emerges as if the veil is slowly dissolving. One thing that I have a hard time with as an aphantasiac is mostly reading books with extensive descriptive imagery, lots of minitious details…
  - mysterydip 3y ago
    One of the things that kept me from pursuing art as a hobby was my skill of drawing couldn't match the detail and fidelity of the image in my head I wanted to draw, frustrating and discouraging me. With aphantasia, how was your experience starting out?
    - lacrimacida 3y ago
      I started painting accidentally more or less. I have to say my experience was empowering and boundless on an imaginary scale. I enter flow state so easily at this point but the first time I stumbled onto it I painted for 12 hours straight and I didn’t feel tired nor did I feel excited about what I produced, I was just calm and pleased with the experience - it felt like a therapeutic purge. The second time I attempted to do it I failed and felt frustrated. Eventually I understood how to enter that ‘door’ and started preparing before each session. Once in a while Im not in the right state of mind and I stop the session, find something else to do with my time. Another painter told me this is a known thing and he described an exerice he was showing his students: take a piece of paper, a pencil and draw circles of any kinds, small circles, large circles, circumscribed circles, most likely the shape doesn’t matter but the repetitive mindless action. He said in half an hour or so you’d want add something to that shape, then add something else after which one can let go of the exercise and just let the flow take over. Never tried the exercise myself but I see it working. When I paint I have my own preparation ritual. This works in other areas such as programming, though the experience is slightly different. With afantasia though I found that what’s what’s holding me back is picturing other peoples code model in my head and often I feel a map would help.
guardian5x 3y ago
What does the link say? (for people without facebook account)
- alanbernstein 3y ago
  It's quite long, and fascinating. I'm able to view it in a private browser tab, so I don't think it requires an account.
irrational 3y ago
I wonder how many things like this there are. I have two that I am aware of. Musical anhedonia (a neurological condition characterized by an inability to derive pleasure from music) and I never dream while sleeping (I’ve never heard a name for this). In this case though, I am aware that others do have an emotional response to music and that others do dream while sleeping.
- vidarh 3y ago
  Having entirely non-verbal thoughts is another one that tends to freak those of us who incessant monologues out. Some both don't think verbally and have aphantasia.
vidarh 3y ago
This article is great[1] > Ed Catmull, 74, has the condition aphantasia, in which people cannot visualise mental images at all. > And in a surprising survey of his former employees, so do some of the world's best animators. [1] "Aphantasia: Ex-Pixar chief Ed Catmull says 'my mind's eye is blind'" -- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-47830256 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-47830256

by enugu 3y ago

KMag 3y ago

A few years ago, my wife and I figured out she has aphantasia. Suddenly, it made sense why she has trouble with navigating, why I have to draw things for her so often rather than just explaining the shapes of the various parts and how they fit together, and also why she finds reading most books so boring. When she reads a book, any description of how things look just goes in one ear and out the other. When walking around a city, she can't overlay a mental map over what she's seeing. On the other hand, I've always had good 3D mental visualization, likely part of why I was drawn to Mechanical Engineering.

EGreg 3y ago
"On the other hand, I've always have good 3D mental visualization" It is also a difference between the sexes https://news.emory.edu/stories/2019/04/esc_gender_gap_spatial_reasoning/campus.html https://news.emory.edu/stories/2019/04/esc_gender_gap_spatia... although some studies claim women are just as good but use different strategies that take longer: https://neurosciencenews.com/spatial-cognition-sexes-15576/ https://neurosciencenews.com/spatial-cognition-sexes-15576/ possibly related: https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/intelligent-people-slower-solve-hard-problems/ https://bigthink.com/neuropsych/intelligent-people-slower-so...
pcl 3y ago
These aren’t necessarily related. I have aphantasia (am aphantastic?) but have a great sense of direction, and think very spatially. Just not with pictures or lines in a “mind’s eye”, as people call it.
- godshatter 3y ago
  I like using the word "aphant" to describe myself in this context.
vidarh 3y ago
I have aphantasia, but significantly above average spatial reasoning. I'm not convinced those things are straightforwardly connected.
- ravishi 3y ago
  Same. My brother doesn't have aphantasia, but he has some kind of "spatial dyslexia" as we call it. Not diagnosed, he just has really hard time thinking about spatial stuff, drawing and writing (related to the form of his "typeface", not to spelling).

haswell 3y ago

I discovered I have this by reading an article about it in Scientific American. It completely blew my mind. I thought “visualizing” was a figure of speech, and was shocked to realize that people actually form images in their mind. I’m also a photographer, and pre-visualizing shots in my mind doesn’t happen the way I’ve heard others describe their process. I immerse myself in the scene, taking everything in as fully as I can while moving around until I experience the shot/composition I want. This turned into a kind of mindfulness for me that has led to a much deeper appreciation of the natural beauty everywhere. I do wonder what’s it’d be like to visualize, but lacking this ability has been interesting in its own way.

lacrimacida 3y ago
As as painter with aphantantasia myself I have a similar experience to yours and do find my own experience to be interesting and not lacking in any way, though it’s impossible to make the comparsion to non aphantasiacs. I feel that I do have an imagination and mind’s eye in my own way somehow connected to intuition, hard to describe into words but it’s like there’s a vail that obstructs the minds eye but I can feel what’s behind it. When I paint I am excited to see what emerges as if the veil is slowly dissolving. One thing that I have a hard time with as an aphantasiac is mostly reading books with extensive descriptive imagery, lots of minitious details…
- mysterydip 3y ago
  One of the things that kept me from pursuing art as a hobby was my skill of drawing couldn't match the detail and fidelity of the image in my head I wanted to draw, frustrating and discouraging me. With aphantasia, how was your experience starting out?
  - lacrimacida 3y ago
    I started painting accidentally more or less. I have to say my experience was empowering and boundless on an imaginary scale. I enter flow state so easily at this point but the first time I stumbled onto it I painted for 12 hours straight and I didn’t feel tired nor did I feel excited about what I produced, I was just calm and pleased with the experience - it felt like a therapeutic purge. The second time I attempted to do it I failed and felt frustrated. Eventually I understood how to enter that ‘door’ and started preparing before each session. Once in a while Im not in the right state of mind and I stop the session, find something else to do with my time. Another painter told me this is a known thing and he described an exerice he was showing his students: take a piece of paper, a pencil and draw circles of any kinds, small circles, large circles, circumscribed circles, most likely the shape doesn’t matter but the repetitive mindless action. He said in half an hour or so you’d want add something to that shape, then add something else after which one can let go of the exercise and just let the flow take over. Never tried the exercise myself but I see it working. When I paint I have my own preparation ritual. This works in other areas such as programming, though the experience is slightly different. With afantasia though I found that what’s what’s holding me back is picturing other peoples code model in my head and often I feel a map would help.

guardian5x 3y ago

What does the link say? (for people without facebook account)

alanbernstein 3y ago
It's quite long, and fascinating. I'm able to view it in a private browser tab, so I don't think it requires an account.

irrational 3y ago

I wonder how many things like this there are. I have two that I am aware of. Musical anhedonia (a neurological condition characterized by an inability to derive pleasure from music) and I never dream while sleeping (I’ve never heard a name for this). In this case though, I am aware that others do have an emotional response to music and that others do dream while sleeping.

vidarh 3y ago
Having entirely non-verbal thoughts is another one that tends to freak those of us who incessant monologues out. Some both don't think verbally and have aphantasia.

vidarh 3y ago

This article is great[1] > Ed Catmull, 74, has the condition aphantasia, in which people cannot visualise mental images at all. > And in a surprising survey of his former employees, so do some of the world's best animators. [1] "Aphantasia: Ex-Pixar chief Ed Catmull says 'my mind's eye is blind'" -- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-47830256 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-47830256