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Copying my comment from the other post from AppleInsider: "No it doesn't. This is appleinsider, and obviously they think everything is about Apple. But if yo

Copying my comment from the other post from AppleInsider: "No it doesn't. This is appleinsider, and obviously they think everything is about Apple. But if you read the proposal, it never mentions smartphones. It is fairly clear that this aims to target other types of electronics such as hand tools. I'm pretty sure EU is satisfied with at cost smartphone battery replacement policy they introduced while back. The whole point is to not scrap electronics just because the battery is old, not that average Joe should be able to do it himself for the cost of making phones more expensive to produce or lose IP ratings."

happymellon 3y ago
This completely makes sense. The battery replacement program is straightforward enough, and Samsung have a similar battery replacement program here in the UK. This is an ewaste prevention policy not a "right to repair". Right to repair comes next, we just want any sort of repair to be considered for these electronics.
red_trumpet 3y ago
From [1] > The regulation provides that by 2027 portable batteries incorporated into appliances should be removable and replaceable by the end-user And from the proposal[2] > This Regulation should apply to all categories of batteries placed on the market or put into service within the Union, regardless of whether they were produced in the Union or imported. It should apply regardless of whether a battery is incorporated into appliances, light means of transport or other vehicles or otherwise added to products or whether a battery is placed on the market or put into service within the Union on its own. What makes you think smartphone batteries are excluded? [1] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2023/07/10/council-adopts-new-regulation-on-batteries-and-waste-batteries/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2023... [2] https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT/en/pdf https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT...
- kramerger 3y ago
  Because this legislation did not come out of nowhere. There were investigations about batteries at home before they fianlized this, and none of it involved smartphones. For example, there was a lot of talk about Dewalt, B&D, Ryobi and others each having a different batteries and a different type of chargers. Smartphone battery issue was addressed separately and the whole spin on user replacable smartphone battery seems to come from forums like this and not EU. In fact, this proposal specifically allows water proof devices to be handled by a professional (an "independent" professional to be exact, which is very much inline with the previous proposal on smartphone battery replacement).
  - atypeoferror 3y ago
    I also don't see anything supporting this interpretation in the actual regulation - quite to the contrary. It repeatedly refers to all batteries, and says nothing of any class of devices that are exempt. > new regulatory framework for batteries will consider rules on recycled content and measures to improve the collection and recycling rates of all batteries > It is necessary to create a harmonised regulatory framework for dealing with the entire life cycle of batteries that are placed on the market in the Union. > It is also necessary to update Union law on the management of waste batteries and to take measures to protect the environment and human health by preventing or reducing the adverse impacts of the generation and management of waste, https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT/en/pdf https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT...
    - technothrasher 3y ago
      It also states: "Products placed on the market [...] in applications that the end-user is not intended to split up or open [...] should be subject to requirements applicable to batteries." This sounds to me like as long as they have a recycling program for cellphones, the entire phone can be considered the "battery" and no user replaceablilty is necessary.
      - CorrectHorseBat 3y ago
        The full paragraph is: >Products placed on the market as battery packs, which are batteries or groups of cells that are connected or encapsulated within an outer casing to form a complete unit ready for use by end-users or in applications that the end-user is not intended to split up or open and which conform to the definition of batteries, or battery cells that conform to the definition of batteries, should be subject to requirements applicable to batteries. I don't think phones can be considered being placed on the market as battery packs
- happymellon 3y ago
  I think phone batteries are included, but I don't think that there is an appetite for aggressive behaviour in that manner. This is an ewaste policy, look at the objectives. Collection of waste, recovery of lithium, new batteries need to be made from recycled batteries. Home replacement of batteries won't accomplish any of those goals. I would say that it would encourage more batteries to go in the bin. Apple and Samsung already provide fairly cheap services to replace those batteries and once removed the batteries can be recycled, this is going to impact other phone providers who don't offer anything, EV manufacturers who don't recycle or provide simple replacement programs, electric bikes that have batteries built into the frame so cant be replaced at all. Compared to all that Apple is a fairly good citizen.
  - barrkel 3y ago
    eWaste also includes all the stuff not including the battery. Making batteries replaceable increases the lifespan of all that other stuff. Of course they may not be supported by software in the case of phones and tablets, but (a) that's a separate issue and (b) not all tech with non-replaceable batteries are phones and tablets. It's an increasingly common pattern in wireless headphones, powered toothbrushes, hair clippers, etc.
    - arlcode 3y ago
      The cyber resilience act which is worked on in parallel would require software updates (not necessarily new features) for a "reasonable" amount of time (I recall about 5 years for phones).
    - happymellon 3y ago
      That was really my point, there are clauses but the main point of the entire thing appears to be to stop things having non-replaceable batteries. Phones are a bit annoying, but they can have their batteries replaced. There are much lower hanging fruit, such as all the phones that can't have the batteries replaced at all, or the toothbrushes, etc. But EU mandates that toothbrushes need to have replaceable batteries isn't click-bate enough compared to Apple conspiracies.
  - 3y ago
- Arch-TK 3y ago
  >light means of transport or other vehicles Never mind phones, what about EVs or cars in general? Currently to replace a Tesla battery you need to lift the car, undo a 30 bolts, use another lift or do some lift juggling to drop the battery, etc. How on earth do you design an EV with the same battery capacity if the battery must be removable without tools or expertise? Hell, my petrol ford fiesta has a battery which fails this requirement (needs spanners to undo the connectors and the hold-down and needs the expertise of knowing which batteries are appropriate, how to safely disconnect it, how to remove it).
  - HWR_14 3y ago
    Assuming they are regular, not security, bolts, Teslas are in the clear. It's no specialty tools or expertise. Working on a car assumes you have the tools and expertise to put a car on a lift, rotate N standard bolts to remove them, and move heavy objects. And you can read the documentation to know how to do it. It's specifically to prevent Tesla from saying "well, you need to have Tesla-bolt driver, the only way to remove our 30-bolts. And we only sell those to authorized Tesla-trained mechanics who took our course because if you mess up a secret process it won't work".
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
    I see no reason in principle that this is an intractable problem. A problem, sure, but one which is solvable given the right incentives, which is what this law is for.
  - M2Ys4U 3y ago
    EV batteries are exempt, as are batteries which are "specifically designed to supply electric power for starting, lighting, or ignition and that can also be used for auxiliary or backup purposes in vehicles, other means of transport or machinery"
    - Arch-TK 3y ago
      I believe Teslas have a lead acid battery specifically for the listed purposes. But I can't quite remember. Should watch some more Rich Rebuilds I guess.
Broken_Hippo 3y ago
* not that average Joe should be able to do it himself * From the article: "This new law states, specifically, that users should be able to replace a battery in their phone without any special expertise or tools." Wouldn't that mean that Average Joe should be able to do it? I would assume that I'd be able to buy a battery and replace it at home instead of shipping it off to some factory and being without a phone - or not actually have to take it to the nearest shop if I don't want to be without a phone for a while. And from what I can find about Apple's battery replacement: They'll only do it IF you have apple care AND your battery has 80% capacity and your phone doesn't have issues such as a cracked screen. [1] This certainly doesn't sound like an easily replaceable battery. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-ie/iphone/repair/battery-replacement https://support.apple.com/en-ie/iphone/repair/battery-replac...
- zelos 3y ago
  They'll only do it for free under those conditions. Otherwise it's ~$100.
  - WeylandYutani 3y ago
    Interesting. I for one am not interested in overengineered expensive iPhones. Spending €100 to fix a €399 Poco sounds like a very bad deal. I hope prices on budget- midrange Android phones don't go up with these new regulations.
    - BoorishBears 3y ago
      iPhones are the best value phone on the market today bar-none, people just tend to be short sighted with their understanding of "expensive". You can buy a €400 used iPhone and get updates for longer than most brand new Android phones. And by the time that used iPhone stops getting updates, you'll still be able to sell it for some non-zero value, while that budget phone will be worthless and destined to be e-waste.
      - djanogo 3y ago
gonzo41 3y ago
Man can you imagine if the EU got all the tool manufactuers standardise on battery type. They'd get one last hurrah with a battery shape then the worst problem in owning cordless tools would be solved. Personally, I suggest they adopt the ryobi battery as the standard.
- XorNot 3y ago
  Milwaukee have the superior form factor though: the Fuel system can shrink down to provide an "in handle" battery, or expand to be the usual brick. I say this as someone heavily in the Makita system.
  - gonzo41 3y ago
    Ryobi havn't changed their battery shape since the 90's. They've been like a rock. But yeah the red tools are nice. Same parent company aswell.
- xyzzy123 3y ago
  That huge stem/stalk is a huge design wart imho, I pray it's a slide pack.
  - gonzo41 3y ago
    Doing construction landscaping work and having batteries and drills fall into mud. I prefer the larger battery stem as there's less tiny grooves to get dirty etc.
Bud 3y ago
Except this isn't happening with phones now. Apple offers affordable battery replacement options without any idiot regulators forcing them to compromise their designs to add a "feature" most users don't need or want.

happymellon 3y ago

This completely makes sense. The battery replacement program is straightforward enough, and Samsung have a similar battery replacement program here in the UK. This is an ewaste prevention policy not a "right to repair". Right to repair comes next, we just want any sort of repair to be considered for these electronics.

red_trumpet 3y ago

From [1] > The regulation provides that by 2027 portable batteries incorporated into appliances should be removable and replaceable by the end-user And from the proposal[2] > This Regulation should apply to all categories of batteries placed on the market or put into service within the Union, regardless of whether they were produced in the Union or imported. It should apply regardless of whether a battery is incorporated into appliances, light means of transport or other vehicles or otherwise added to products or whether a battery is placed on the market or put into service within the Union on its own. What makes you think smartphone batteries are excluded? [1] https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2023/07/10/council-adopts-new-regulation-on-batteries-and-waste-batteries/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2023... [2] https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT/en/pdf https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT...

kramerger 3y ago
Because this legislation did not come out of nowhere. There were investigations about batteries at home before they fianlized this, and none of it involved smartphones. For example, there was a lot of talk about Dewalt, B&D, Ryobi and others each having a different batteries and a different type of chargers. Smartphone battery issue was addressed separately and the whole spin on user replacable smartphone battery seems to come from forums like this and not EU. In fact, this proposal specifically allows water proof devices to be handled by a professional (an "independent" professional to be exact, which is very much inline with the previous proposal on smartphone battery replacement).
- atypeoferror 3y ago
  I also don't see anything supporting this interpretation in the actual regulation - quite to the contrary. It repeatedly refers to all batteries, and says nothing of any class of devices that are exempt. > new regulatory framework for batteries will consider rules on recycled content and measures to improve the collection and recycling rates of all batteries > It is necessary to create a harmonised regulatory framework for dealing with the entire life cycle of batteries that are placed on the market in the Union. > It is also necessary to update Union law on the management of waste batteries and to take measures to protect the environment and human health by preventing or reducing the adverse impacts of the generation and management of waste, https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT/en/pdf https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/PE-2-2023-INIT...
  - technothrasher 3y ago
    It also states: "Products placed on the market [...] in applications that the end-user is not intended to split up or open [...] should be subject to requirements applicable to batteries." This sounds to me like as long as they have a recycling program for cellphones, the entire phone can be considered the "battery" and no user replaceablilty is necessary.
    - CorrectHorseBat 3y ago
      The full paragraph is: >Products placed on the market as battery packs, which are batteries or groups of cells that are connected or encapsulated within an outer casing to form a complete unit ready for use by end-users or in applications that the end-user is not intended to split up or open and which conform to the definition of batteries, or battery cells that conform to the definition of batteries, should be subject to requirements applicable to batteries. I don't think phones can be considered being placed on the market as battery packs
happymellon 3y ago
I think phone batteries are included, but I don't think that there is an appetite for aggressive behaviour in that manner. This is an ewaste policy, look at the objectives. Collection of waste, recovery of lithium, new batteries need to be made from recycled batteries. Home replacement of batteries won't accomplish any of those goals. I would say that it would encourage more batteries to go in the bin. Apple and Samsung already provide fairly cheap services to replace those batteries and once removed the batteries can be recycled, this is going to impact other phone providers who don't offer anything, EV manufacturers who don't recycle or provide simple replacement programs, electric bikes that have batteries built into the frame so cant be replaced at all. Compared to all that Apple is a fairly good citizen.
- barrkel 3y ago
  eWaste also includes all the stuff not including the battery. Making batteries replaceable increases the lifespan of all that other stuff. Of course they may not be supported by software in the case of phones and tablets, but (a) that's a separate issue and (b) not all tech with non-replaceable batteries are phones and tablets. It's an increasingly common pattern in wireless headphones, powered toothbrushes, hair clippers, etc.
  - arlcode 3y ago
    The cyber resilience act which is worked on in parallel would require software updates (not necessarily new features) for a "reasonable" amount of time (I recall about 5 years for phones).
  - happymellon 3y ago
    That was really my point, there are clauses but the main point of the entire thing appears to be to stop things having non-replaceable batteries. Phones are a bit annoying, but they can have their batteries replaced. There are much lower hanging fruit, such as all the phones that can't have the batteries replaced at all, or the toothbrushes, etc. But EU mandates that toothbrushes need to have replaceable batteries isn't click-bate enough compared to Apple conspiracies.
- 3y ago
Arch-TK 3y ago
>light means of transport or other vehicles Never mind phones, what about EVs or cars in general? Currently to replace a Tesla battery you need to lift the car, undo a 30 bolts, use another lift or do some lift juggling to drop the battery, etc. How on earth do you design an EV with the same battery capacity if the battery must be removable without tools or expertise? Hell, my petrol ford fiesta has a battery which fails this requirement (needs spanners to undo the connectors and the hold-down and needs the expertise of knowing which batteries are appropriate, how to safely disconnect it, how to remove it).
- HWR_14 3y ago
  Assuming they are regular, not security, bolts, Teslas are in the clear. It's no specialty tools or expertise. Working on a car assumes you have the tools and expertise to put a car on a lift, rotate N standard bolts to remove them, and move heavy objects. And you can read the documentation to know how to do it. It's specifically to prevent Tesla from saying "well, you need to have Tesla-bolt driver, the only way to remove our 30-bolts. And we only sell those to authorized Tesla-trained mechanics who took our course because if you mess up a secret process it won't work".
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
  I see no reason in principle that this is an intractable problem. A problem, sure, but one which is solvable given the right incentives, which is what this law is for.
- M2Ys4U 3y ago
  EV batteries are exempt, as are batteries which are "specifically designed to supply electric power for starting, lighting, or ignition and that can also be used for auxiliary or backup purposes in vehicles, other means of transport or machinery"
  - Arch-TK 3y ago
    I believe Teslas have a lead acid battery specifically for the listed purposes. But I can't quite remember. Should watch some more Rich Rebuilds I guess.

Broken_Hippo 3y ago

* not that average Joe should be able to do it himself * From the article: "This new law states, specifically, that users should be able to replace a battery in their phone without any special expertise or tools." Wouldn't that mean that Average Joe should be able to do it? I would assume that I'd be able to buy a battery and replace it at home instead of shipping it off to some factory and being without a phone - or not actually have to take it to the nearest shop if I don't want to be without a phone for a while. And from what I can find about Apple's battery replacement: They'll only do it IF you have apple care AND your battery has 80% capacity and your phone doesn't have issues such as a cracked screen. [1] This certainly doesn't sound like an easily replaceable battery. [1] https://support.apple.com/en-ie/iphone/repair/battery-replacement https://support.apple.com/en-ie/iphone/repair/battery-replac...

zelos 3y ago
They'll only do it for free under those conditions. Otherwise it's ~$100.
- WeylandYutani 3y ago
  Interesting. I for one am not interested in overengineered expensive iPhones. Spending €100 to fix a €399 Poco sounds like a very bad deal. I hope prices on budget- midrange Android phones don't go up with these new regulations.
  - BoorishBears 3y ago
    iPhones are the best value phone on the market today bar-none, people just tend to be short sighted with their understanding of "expensive". You can buy a €400 used iPhone and get updates for longer than most brand new Android phones. And by the time that used iPhone stops getting updates, you'll still be able to sell it for some non-zero value, while that budget phone will be worthless and destined to be e-waste.
    - djanogo 3y ago

gonzo41 3y ago

Man can you imagine if the EU got all the tool manufactuers standardise on battery type. They'd get one last hurrah with a battery shape then the worst problem in owning cordless tools would be solved. Personally, I suggest they adopt the ryobi battery as the standard.

XorNot 3y ago
Milwaukee have the superior form factor though: the Fuel system can shrink down to provide an "in handle" battery, or expand to be the usual brick. I say this as someone heavily in the Makita system.
- gonzo41 3y ago
  Ryobi havn't changed their battery shape since the 90's. They've been like a rock. But yeah the red tools are nice. Same parent company aswell.
xyzzy123 3y ago
That huge stem/stalk is a huge design wart imho, I pray it's a slide pack.
- gonzo41 3y ago
  Doing construction landscaping work and having batteries and drills fall into mud. I prefer the larger battery stem as there's less tiny grooves to get dirty etc.

Bud 3y ago

Except this isn't happening with phones now. Apple offers affordable battery replacement options without any idiot regulators forcing them to compromise their designs to add a "feature" most users don't need or want.