4 ms·

> screw over our community For some definition of community.

by bonzini 3y ago

bayindirh 3y ago
From my observation point, I see that Rocky already has some sizeable following. Esp, from research community.
- bclemens 3y ago
  We do indeed. Adoption numbers are promising <https://rocky-stats.tiuxo.com/auto.html https://rocky-stats.tiuxo.com/auto.html> but community size is enormous as well. 9071 folks on https://chat.rockylinux.org https://chat.rockylinux.org, ~300 folks on IRC, ~4100 folks on the forum, etc. Adoption by many large organizations / businesses was also quite fast. And may have even caused us some trouble, I suspect the attention garnered by NASA's use of Rocky Linux had something to do with instigating Red Hat's recent antics.
  - bayindirh 3y ago
    The charts really look impressive. I didn't expect such an uptake. The funny thing is, people have tried it first (ephemeral instances), then started to migrate. Fascinating. No wonder why Red Hat got a little irritated.
bclemens 3y ago
What are you trying to imply here Paolo?
- bonzini 3y ago
  That there is a community around enterprise Linux that you chose not to participate in, and that is the Fedora ELN/CentOS Stream community. And that I think I am finally understanding the differences between Alma and Rocky.
  - 5e92cb50239222b 3y ago
    The difference was painfully obvious about 3-4 months in, this only confirms it. Everyone here keeps asking why would one pick AlmaLinux over literally anything else, while I'm sitting here asking myself how would anyone risk running his business on a distribution built on such a shady foundation, from sources obtained in a metaphorical back alley. Feels like a lawsuit waiting to happen, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving side of that for sure.
  - bclemens 3y ago
    We participate in the Enterprise Linux community just fine. Our community members report bugs and throw patches at upstream projects, run SIGs creating value for EL, maintain Fedora and EPEL packages, etc.
    - bonzini 3y ago
      You're talking about the users' community (and I have nothing to complain about that) and generic upstream; however I am talking about the builders' community instead.
      - bclemens 3y ago
        Can you elaborate how the patches, bug reports, package maintenance, etc, do not benefit the "builders' community"? They all go to the same upstream. And what exactly do you mean by "builders' community", do you actually mean "Red Hat"? By "not participate in" do you mean "not pay your employer"? Which we do, actually. Just wired a good chunk of money to Red Hat the other day, ostensibly earmarked for supporting the Fedora project.
        bonzini 3y ago
        The builders community is where the next EL is built. It's Fedora ELN and CentOS Stream. You made your choice to keep focusing on "bug-for-bug" downstream instead, that's fine but I like it less than working together with Red Hat, Alma, Facebook, Intel and others. Red Hat's action didn't screw over the builders community. It did complicate things in the short term for part of the users community, but at the same time it showed a clear way forward for builders that would not screw over users. Red Hat's intention is to stick to what they have been saying for three years and coalesce builders around Fedora ELN and CentOS Stream; not to screw over users. Hence my original remark: if you think all Red Hat wants is to screw over communities again and again, your definition of community is not the same as mine. > ostensibly earmarked for supporting the Fedora project. Thanks for that. I never said you don't support the rpm-/Fedora-based ecosystem as a whole, and I appreciate that you also do so monetarily.

> screw over our community For some definition of community.

bayindirh 3y ago

From my observation point, I see that Rocky already has some sizeable following. Esp, from research community.

bclemens 3y ago
We do indeed. Adoption numbers are promising <https://rocky-stats.tiuxo.com/auto.html https://rocky-stats.tiuxo.com/auto.html> but community size is enormous as well. 9071 folks on https://chat.rockylinux.org https://chat.rockylinux.org, ~300 folks on IRC, ~4100 folks on the forum, etc. Adoption by many large organizations / businesses was also quite fast. And may have even caused us some trouble, I suspect the attention garnered by NASA's use of Rocky Linux had something to do with instigating Red Hat's recent antics.
- bayindirh 3y ago
  The charts really look impressive. I didn't expect such an uptake. The funny thing is, people have tried it first (ephemeral instances), then started to migrate. Fascinating. No wonder why Red Hat got a little irritated.

bclemens 3y ago

What are you trying to imply here Paolo?

bonzini 3y ago
That there is a community around enterprise Linux that you chose not to participate in, and that is the Fedora ELN/CentOS Stream community. And that I think I am finally understanding the differences between Alma and Rocky.
- 5e92cb50239222b 3y ago
  The difference was painfully obvious about 3-4 months in, this only confirms it. Everyone here keeps asking why would one pick AlmaLinux over literally anything else, while I'm sitting here asking myself how would anyone risk running his business on a distribution built on such a shady foundation, from sources obtained in a metaphorical back alley. Feels like a lawsuit waiting to happen, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving side of that for sure.
- bclemens 3y ago
  We participate in the Enterprise Linux community just fine. Our community members report bugs and throw patches at upstream projects, run SIGs creating value for EL, maintain Fedora and EPEL packages, etc.
  - bonzini 3y ago
    You're talking about the users' community (and I have nothing to complain about that) and generic upstream; however I am talking about the builders' community instead.
    - bclemens 3y ago
      Can you elaborate how the patches, bug reports, package maintenance, etc, do not benefit the "builders' community"? They all go to the same upstream. And what exactly do you mean by "builders' community", do you actually mean "Red Hat"? By "not participate in" do you mean "not pay your employer"? Which we do, actually. Just wired a good chunk of money to Red Hat the other day, ostensibly earmarked for supporting the Fedora project.
      - bonzini 3y ago
        The builders community is where the next EL is built. It's Fedora ELN and CentOS Stream. You made your choice to keep focusing on "bug-for-bug" downstream instead, that's fine but I like it less than working together with Red Hat, Alma, Facebook, Intel and others. Red Hat's action didn't screw over the builders community. It did complicate things in the short term for part of the users community, but at the same time it showed a clear way forward for builders that would not screw over users. Red Hat's intention is to stick to what they have been saying for three years and coalesce builders around Fedora ELN and CentOS Stream; not to screw over users. Hence my original remark: if you think all Red Hat wants is to screw over communities again and again, your definition of community is not the same as mine. > ostensibly earmarked for supporting the Fedora project. Thanks for that. I never said you don't support the rpm-/Fedora-based ecosystem as a whole, and I appreciate that you also do so monetarily.