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I agree with your disagreement. OP says: > And worst of all, as is happening to the friend I mentioned, you will have to lay-off people who don’t deserve it,

by t1mmen 3y ago

I agree with your disagreement. OP says: > And worst of all, as is happening to the friend I mentioned, you will have to lay-off people who don’t deserve it, just because the company says so. > > Good luck doing that if everyone in your team is your buddy. I learned it the hard way, the first time I had to fire someone. Having had to do this a few to times, my perspective remains that I want to build strong, personal bonds with my team. Doesn’t matter where I sit in the hierarchy, people that connect and communicate well just work better together. It absolutely fucking sucks having to fire good colleagues and workplace friends, but that’s a feature, not a bug. It should feel bad! That’s part of the human experience. If you make yourself mute to these emotions, you’re doing yourself a disservice in the long run.

darkwater 3y ago
> It absolutely fucking sucks having to fire good colleagues and workplace friends, but that’s a feature, not a bug. It should feel bad! That’s part of the human experience. If you make yourself mute to these emotions, you’re doing yourself a disservice in the long run. I understand your point and view, but I don't agree. I don't agree because, as a manager myself, it's already hard enough to do this even if I don't have any special relationship with the person. If I had it, it would become stress and mental health issues. So if true personal friendships are allowed, either the kind of person like the one I am should never get into management or we have to endure this extra pain that ends up affecting our personal lives.
- kerkeslager 3y ago
  > I understand your point and view, but I don't agree. I don't agree because, as a manager myself, it's already hard enough to do this even if I don't have any special relationship with the person. If I had it, it would become stress and mental health issues. It's not healthy to dissociate yourself so you can do harm to others. Doing harm to other people should be hard and if it's not hard, that is a mental health issue. The society we live in is fucked up, and being well-adjusted to a sick society isn't a measure of health. That doesn't mean you never do harm to others: sometimes all your options harm someone, and the best option is the one that does the least harm. But in those situations you can have a clear conscience if you do your best to minimize the damage within the options you have. > So if true personal friendships are allowed, either the kind of person like the one I am should never get into management or we have to endure this extra pain that ends up affecting our personal lives. Good people aren't ideal capitalist robots, and ideal capitalist robots aren't good people. That doesn't mean good people can't ever be in positions of power, but it's certainly more difficult to get there without making ethical compromises.

by t1mmen 3y ago

darkwater 3y ago

> It absolutely fucking sucks having to fire good colleagues and workplace friends, but that’s a feature, not a bug. It should feel bad! That’s part of the human experience. If you make yourself mute to these emotions, you’re doing yourself a disservice in the long run. I understand your point and view, but I don't agree. I don't agree because, as a manager myself, it's already hard enough to do this even if I don't have any special relationship with the person. If I had it, it would become stress and mental health issues. So if true personal friendships are allowed, either the kind of person like the one I am should never get into management or we have to endure this extra pain that ends up affecting our personal lives.

kerkeslager 3y ago
> I understand your point and view, but I don't agree. I don't agree because, as a manager myself, it's already hard enough to do this even if I don't have any special relationship with the person. If I had it, it would become stress and mental health issues. It's not healthy to dissociate yourself so you can do harm to others. Doing harm to other people should be hard and if it's not hard, that is a mental health issue. The society we live in is fucked up, and being well-adjusted to a sick society isn't a measure of health. That doesn't mean you never do harm to others: sometimes all your options harm someone, and the best option is the one that does the least harm. But in those situations you can have a clear conscience if you do your best to minimize the damage within the options you have. > So if true personal friendships are allowed, either the kind of person like the one I am should never get into management or we have to endure this extra pain that ends up affecting our personal lives. Good people aren't ideal capitalist robots, and ideal capitalist robots aren't good people. That doesn't mean good people can't ever be in positions of power, but it's certainly more difficult to get there without making ethical compromises.