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For anyone unaware: > On August 5, following the PATCO workers' refusal to return to work, the Reagan administration fired the 11,345 striking air traffic cont

For anyone unaware: > On August 5, following the PATCO workers' refusal to return to work, the Reagan administration fired the 11,345 striking air traffic controllers who had ignored the order, and banned them from federal service for life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Controllers_Organization_(1968) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Contr...

TheCaptain4815 3y ago
There’s an enormous difference between Hollywood actors striking and air traffic control. Air traffic controllers weren’t even allowed to strike given how critical their jobs are and could have paralyzed the entire country. Comparing that to actors is nonsensical.
- blamazon 3y ago
  The uneven comparison is sort of the point: If air traffic controllers are so essential to the country's operation, why didn't the Reagan administration just avoid the strike by giving them what they wanted, like he was able to get personally in 1960? Is the idea that we can only give non-essential workers what they want (because they have the luxury of striking and not screwing over the country) and everyone else can get bent? That's the idea that's nonsensical to me and discordant between Reagan the actor and Reagan the president.
  - linuxftw 3y ago
    What if they wanted $1m each? Should he have just given them what they wanted? He called their bluff and brought in replacements. Hollywood can do the same.
    - LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
      They asked for a $10k raise and a 32 hour workweek due to burnout, hard to argue that this was an unreasonable ask. This was the exact same paradox that essential healthcare workers faced during the pandemic. Too important to give time off, but not important enough to properly compensate.
      - mc32 3y ago
        Water is essential for life on Earth yet it’s one of the cheapest substances available.
        JetSpiegel 3y ago
        The kind of water essential for life is not that abundant...
        deprecative 3y ago
        This is not a universal truth. If you're going to wander into a discussion at least do so with some measure of good faith cognitive effort.
    - revelio 3y ago
      That's what I don't get about these demands. If Hollywood wants to scan background actors and reuse them instead of paying them a day rate, then surely almost anyone can be scanned and used in such a process. At that point they aren't even actors, they're just sources of pretty faces for the VFX team. And that isn't even necessary is it because GANs can imagine pretty faces for years now. Presumably if actors pick this as a hill to die on, well, suddenly there'll be even more surplus supply of actors to demand because the easy roles are VFX, and at that point Hollywood can just break the unions with scabs.
  - solatic 3y ago
    > why didn't the Reagan administration just avoid the strike by giving them what they wanted, like he was able to get personally in 1960? His administration actually made some pretty generous offers in the negotiations. Part of the reason the negotiations broke down is because PATCO's radical wing, which believed that getting the best deal required striking first, ended up in control by the time the Reagan administration came to power. That soured Reagan's position since he felt, despite the generous offers, that the negotiations were being handled in bad faith.
    - kyleee 3y ago
      can you recommend any books about the whole affair? i've never heard anyone share from reagan's perspective and now I'd like to know more
      - solatic 3y ago
        Yep, I consider Collision Course to be the definitive history: https://a.co/d/18t0JmK https://a.co/d/18t0JmK which traces air traffic controllers in the US from long before PATCO, up to the fateful Reagan termination, and the fallout afterwards. Fascinating, even-handed between labor and management, couldn't put it down.
        blamazon 3y ago
        Thanks for the recommendation!
Frost1x 3y ago
Was unaware but not surprising coming from Reagan.

TheCaptain4815 3y ago

There’s an enormous difference between Hollywood actors striking and air traffic control. Air traffic controllers weren’t even allowed to strike given how critical their jobs are and could have paralyzed the entire country. Comparing that to actors is nonsensical.

blamazon 3y ago
The uneven comparison is sort of the point: If air traffic controllers are so essential to the country's operation, why didn't the Reagan administration just avoid the strike by giving them what they wanted, like he was able to get personally in 1960? Is the idea that we can only give non-essential workers what they want (because they have the luxury of striking and not screwing over the country) and everyone else can get bent? That's the idea that's nonsensical to me and discordant between Reagan the actor and Reagan the president.
- linuxftw 3y ago
  What if they wanted $1m each? Should he have just given them what they wanted? He called their bluff and brought in replacements. Hollywood can do the same.
  - LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
    They asked for a $10k raise and a 32 hour workweek due to burnout, hard to argue that this was an unreasonable ask. This was the exact same paradox that essential healthcare workers faced during the pandemic. Too important to give time off, but not important enough to properly compensate.
    - mc32 3y ago
      Water is essential for life on Earth yet it’s one of the cheapest substances available.
      - JetSpiegel 3y ago
        The kind of water essential for life is not that abundant...
      - deprecative 3y ago
        This is not a universal truth. If you're going to wander into a discussion at least do so with some measure of good faith cognitive effort.
  - revelio 3y ago
    That's what I don't get about these demands. If Hollywood wants to scan background actors and reuse them instead of paying them a day rate, then surely almost anyone can be scanned and used in such a process. At that point they aren't even actors, they're just sources of pretty faces for the VFX team. And that isn't even necessary is it because GANs can imagine pretty faces for years now. Presumably if actors pick this as a hill to die on, well, suddenly there'll be even more surplus supply of actors to demand because the easy roles are VFX, and at that point Hollywood can just break the unions with scabs.
- solatic 3y ago
  > why didn't the Reagan administration just avoid the strike by giving them what they wanted, like he was able to get personally in 1960? His administration actually made some pretty generous offers in the negotiations. Part of the reason the negotiations broke down is because PATCO's radical wing, which believed that getting the best deal required striking first, ended up in control by the time the Reagan administration came to power. That soured Reagan's position since he felt, despite the generous offers, that the negotiations were being handled in bad faith.
  - kyleee 3y ago
    can you recommend any books about the whole affair? i've never heard anyone share from reagan's perspective and now I'd like to know more
    - solatic 3y ago
      Yep, I consider Collision Course to be the definitive history: https://a.co/d/18t0JmK https://a.co/d/18t0JmK which traces air traffic controllers in the US from long before PATCO, up to the fateful Reagan termination, and the fallout afterwards. Fascinating, even-handed between labor and management, couldn't put it down.
      - blamazon 3y ago
        Thanks for the recommendation!

Frost1x 3y ago

Was unaware but not surprising coming from Reagan.