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Due to fire code, to divide a high-rise into 4 corner units, you need to take up almost ~50% of the space for elevators, stairs and hallways. So you'd probably

Due to fire code, to divide a high-rise into 4 corner units, you need to take up almost ~50% of the space for elevators, stairs and hallways. So you'd probably end up with close to 5k square foot condos - which isn't too ridiculous. You'd probably do 4 corner units and 4 non-corner units for a total of eight, and end up with each being between 2000 and 2500. The problem is, they'd be ridiculously expensive for a number of reasons. And when you're paying that much money, you probably don't want to live in a building that wasn't even designed to be lived in...

NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
>The problem is, they'd be ridiculously expensive for a number of reasons. And when you're paying that much money, you probably don't want to live in a building that wasn't even designed to be lived in... <owners of $5 million Tribeca lofts have entered the chat>
- steveBK123 3y ago
  Exactly, I live in a former noodle factory... many such cases.
lovich 3y ago
Given the Boston market this will still help everyone. My household is making north of 300k and was still having trouble bidding on home where there were dead cockroaches visible during the showing. It feels wrong to build luxury housing when regular folk are suffering but if you build luxury housing to the point that the rich stop bidding on regular housing, or even better there’s so much luxury housing that everyone can get a good living space, it’s a net improvement for all of society
- michaelmrose 3y ago
  It's not clear that you can meaningfully effect availability of "regular" housing by building any reasonable number of luxury homes. Slightly reducing the cost of luxury apartments may attract more buyers from outside the city, average the rate of vacancy may increase without the price going down much. They can be purchased by the rich to be used as unlicensed hotels aka airbnb. They can be ought up as "investments" and not effectively rented out effectively enough as long as you don't build so much you literally flood the market. Even if the price of expensive apartments does go down a little because more people are able to afford "luxury" you don't necessarily have to let the little guy in on the savings you can as an industry collude to keep the price as high as the market can bear without literally becoming homeless. You don't even have to actually collude in an illegal fashion if your interests are actually sufficiently aligned that you all act in lockstep without overt coordination. Any real savings can be virtually entirely absorbed by the owner class.
  - eliasmacpherson 3y ago
    Agree - it's the 'Trickle-down Effect' except with property instead of wealth.
    - TulliusCicero 3y ago
      No, it's just basic supply and demand.
      - eliasmacpherson 3y ago
        A definition of demand: Demand is an economic concept that relates to a consumer's desire to purchase goods and services and willingness to pay a specific price for them. The poor do not have the willingness to pay a whole category of prices, as they are unable to finance it. Creating luxury accommodation can increase supply, but as the decrease in price does not necessarily put the older accommodation within reach, the owners of captial can choose to retain it.
        watwut 3y ago
        Undesirable areas are full of cheap mansions, slowly decaying because no one wants to live in a place with no jobs. Housing is not that special, when there is a lot of it, it gets cheap.
        eliasmacpherson 3y ago
        Nobody with enough capital to buy/rent them wants to live there.
        ecshafer 3y ago
        If there are 10 houses available and there are 12 families looking to buy then the they will bid up and the 10 wealthiest families win. If you build 2 luxury homes, it doesn’t matter if poor families 11 and 12 can’t afford them, because 1 and 2 can, which makes them not bid on normal house 1, 2, …, n lowering all housing prices.
- eli_gottlieb 3y ago
  >My household is making north of 300k and was still having trouble bidding on home where there were dead cockroaches visible during the showing. What size of place are you looking for? My partner and I bought in Boston in 2019 while making a fraction of that income.
  - steveBK123 3y ago
    you'd be surprised how much the market has moved my brother & his wife are expecting a kid and were looking at houses within 30min of Boston the last place they lost a bidding war on was $600K.. for a 3bed/1bath 1000 sq foot.. well outside the city, went for 20% over ask.. crazy stuff
  - lovich 3y ago
    Somerville around Sullivan square. Was paying 3200 a month all in on a 1200 sq ft townhouse. Looked at a few of the homes around our street and they were selling for 700k-1million and off market in a few days after posting. This was all a few months before covid. We found some places we could afford but they either made our commute fairly long(>1 hour each way), would stretch our budget to have zero tolerance for emergencies, or both
    - steveBK123 3y ago
      This describes my brothers situation pretty much. People also have a lot of received wisdom of how they were brought up in the burbs and just assume you HAVE TO buy. There's plenty of markets where prices/rent are upside down and you might as well rent indefinitely. People forget you are either renting housing or renting money to "own" housing. If you are disciplined enough to save the difference, renting can be better in some markets. Mostly its HCOL coastal cities where people are accepting ridiculously low rental yield because they are banking on price appreciation. If you don't know if you want to be in X location for the next 5.. probably more like 10 years, there's not always a solid reason to buy.
      - lovich 3y ago
        That was where we ended up on the math. We liked the idea of owning our own home and building equity in it, but the cost was too high and like you said, we couldn’t conclude we’d be in the area in even 2 years. Covid hitting a few months after we started looking also definitely helped solidify that opinion and things might have turned out differently if we didn’t have a worldwide plague causing me and my wife tons of uncertainty in the future
soupfordummies 3y ago
As for expensive-ness, IDK. You’d THINK “the longer it sits, the cheaper it gets.” I know of several big, high-rise office buildings that are 75% empty since the pandemic. We’re talking a few years now! But then again, greed is real. My current office building is getting more and more empty by the day. And they refused to budge on the rent for my company even so.

NovemberWhiskey 3y ago

>The problem is, they'd be ridiculously expensive for a number of reasons. And when you're paying that much money, you probably don't want to live in a building that wasn't even designed to be lived in... <owners of $5 million Tribeca lofts have entered the chat>

steveBK123 3y ago
Exactly, I live in a former noodle factory... many such cases.

lovich 3y ago

Given the Boston market this will still help everyone. My household is making north of 300k and was still having trouble bidding on home where there were dead cockroaches visible during the showing. It feels wrong to build luxury housing when regular folk are suffering but if you build luxury housing to the point that the rich stop bidding on regular housing, or even better there’s so much luxury housing that everyone can get a good living space, it’s a net improvement for all of society

michaelmrose 3y ago
It's not clear that you can meaningfully effect availability of "regular" housing by building any reasonable number of luxury homes. Slightly reducing the cost of luxury apartments may attract more buyers from outside the city, average the rate of vacancy may increase without the price going down much. They can be purchased by the rich to be used as unlicensed hotels aka airbnb. They can be ought up as "investments" and not effectively rented out effectively enough as long as you don't build so much you literally flood the market. Even if the price of expensive apartments does go down a little because more people are able to afford "luxury" you don't necessarily have to let the little guy in on the savings you can as an industry collude to keep the price as high as the market can bear without literally becoming homeless. You don't even have to actually collude in an illegal fashion if your interests are actually sufficiently aligned that you all act in lockstep without overt coordination. Any real savings can be virtually entirely absorbed by the owner class.
- eliasmacpherson 3y ago
  Agree - it's the 'Trickle-down Effect' except with property instead of wealth.
  - TulliusCicero 3y ago
    No, it's just basic supply and demand.
    - eliasmacpherson 3y ago
      A definition of demand: Demand is an economic concept that relates to a consumer's desire to purchase goods and services and willingness to pay a specific price for them. The poor do not have the willingness to pay a whole category of prices, as they are unable to finance it. Creating luxury accommodation can increase supply, but as the decrease in price does not necessarily put the older accommodation within reach, the owners of captial can choose to retain it.
      - watwut 3y ago
        Undesirable areas are full of cheap mansions, slowly decaying because no one wants to live in a place with no jobs. Housing is not that special, when there is a lot of it, it gets cheap.
        eliasmacpherson 3y ago
        Nobody with enough capital to buy/rent them wants to live there.
      - ecshafer 3y ago
        If there are 10 houses available and there are 12 families looking to buy then the they will bid up and the 10 wealthiest families win. If you build 2 luxury homes, it doesn’t matter if poor families 11 and 12 can’t afford them, because 1 and 2 can, which makes them not bid on normal house 1, 2, …, n lowering all housing prices.
eli_gottlieb 3y ago
>My household is making north of 300k and was still having trouble bidding on home where there were dead cockroaches visible during the showing. What size of place are you looking for? My partner and I bought in Boston in 2019 while making a fraction of that income.
- steveBK123 3y ago
  you'd be surprised how much the market has moved my brother & his wife are expecting a kid and were looking at houses within 30min of Boston the last place they lost a bidding war on was $600K.. for a 3bed/1bath 1000 sq foot.. well outside the city, went for 20% over ask.. crazy stuff
- lovich 3y ago
  Somerville around Sullivan square. Was paying 3200 a month all in on a 1200 sq ft townhouse. Looked at a few of the homes around our street and they were selling for 700k-1million and off market in a few days after posting. This was all a few months before covid. We found some places we could afford but they either made our commute fairly long(>1 hour each way), would stretch our budget to have zero tolerance for emergencies, or both
  - steveBK123 3y ago
    This describes my brothers situation pretty much. People also have a lot of received wisdom of how they were brought up in the burbs and just assume you HAVE TO buy. There's plenty of markets where prices/rent are upside down and you might as well rent indefinitely. People forget you are either renting housing or renting money to "own" housing. If you are disciplined enough to save the difference, renting can be better in some markets. Mostly its HCOL coastal cities where people are accepting ridiculously low rental yield because they are banking on price appreciation. If you don't know if you want to be in X location for the next 5.. probably more like 10 years, there's not always a solid reason to buy.
    - lovich 3y ago
      That was where we ended up on the math. We liked the idea of owning our own home and building equity in it, but the cost was too high and like you said, we couldn’t conclude we’d be in the area in even 2 years. Covid hitting a few months after we started looking also definitely helped solidify that opinion and things might have turned out differently if we didn’t have a worldwide plague causing me and my wife tons of uncertainty in the future

soupfordummies 3y ago

As for expensive-ness, IDK. You’d THINK “the longer it sits, the cheaper it gets.” I know of several big, high-rise office buildings that are 75% empty since the pandemic. We’re talking a few years now! But then again, greed is real. My current office building is getting more and more empty by the day. And they refused to budge on the rent for my company even so.