5 ms·

If you don't want to sell your data, don't.

by squokko 3y ago

minimaxir 3y ago
Well yes. That's why SAG-AFTRA is going on strike.
- ars 3y ago
  Isn't the strike to prevent other people from selling their data? You don't have to go on strike to not sell your own data.
  - dkh 3y ago
    They are a union. They negotiate as a collective. And its members voted to the tune of 98% in favor of the strike.
    - __loam 3y ago
      I often see anti-union sentiment in tech circles which is hilarious considering how companies like Apple and Microsoft have already tried to fuck us with non-competes.
      - pierat 3y ago
        But you know 100x hyper-libertarian-48lawsofpower-dude can definitely negotiate better than a dirty liberal... Union! (I swear, I've had that exact conversation here, with nearly that same tone. And of course, verbal contortions that they are somehow better individuals with 'special skills'. They're just more meat for the grinder.)
        __loam 3y ago
        Honestly hoping AI destroys programming first because we absolutely deserve to get hoisted by our own petard here.
        golergka 3y ago
        Until union tries to force people to become members or force companies to only hire members, it's a completely valid libertarian concept. It’s essentially a cartel of employees. The only people who should have something against it are those who think that monopolies should be broken down.
        pierat 3y ago
        The NLRB forces unions to also negotiate for non-union members. When the NLRB no longer requires negotiating for free-loaders, sure. But if I'm part of a union, you damn straight if you're getting the benefits and getting negotiation, I want you to pay your share.
        Aloisius 3y ago
        Got a source for that? That seems counter to the fact that the NLRB has allowed different benefits and pay for union vs. non-union employees.
        pierat 3y ago
        Gladly! https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/right-to-fair-representation https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/em... I would have to dig for the exact USC codes that construct the below paragraph taken from said website. I don't have that on hand. "Your union has the duty to represent all employees - whether members of the union or not-fairly, in good faith, and without discrimination. This duty applies to virtually every action that a union may take in dealing with an employer as your representative, including collective bargaining, handling grievances, and operating exclusive hiring halls. For example, a union which represents you cannot refuse to process a grievance because you have criticized union officials or because you are not a member of the union. But the duty does not ordinarily apply to rights a worker can enforce independently - such as filing a workers' compensation claim - or to internal union affairs - such as the union's right to discipline members for violating its own rules."
        3y ago
      - ars 3y ago
        You misinterpret my message. It's union irrelevant. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36717457 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36717457 where I flesh out what I'm saying. These unions are in danger of becoming irrelevant.
  - throwaway14356 3y ago
    strikes are to bargain collectively. The individual formula will only work for some employees and gradually erode as more are sucked into the void. The choice in this case eventually becomes one between paying or not paying at all which is a completely hilarious deal. You won't have to do any work tho, you will be working elsewhere
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- renata 3y ago
  Doesn't the definition of background actor preclude being in SAG though? I thought extras had to be in three or four productions in a year before they got their SAG cards.
mattigames 3y ago
But enough other actors will and it will be much cheaper to use their replica than hiring real actors so even those who didn't sell their data are going to see their income heavily reduced thanks to this antics.
- dkh 3y ago
  No actors will be able to do this unless SAG-AFTRA negotiates it. SAG-AFTRA does not just represent household names, it's all actors, 160,000 people whether you're the star of feature films or the guy with one line in one episode of a streaming series nobody knows about. This is the point of a union and collective bargaining. Actors aren't able to work outside the bounds of the agreements even if they were willing to.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    do they even need actors for this? they need personalities. they scan the personality of thousands of people, and let AI do the acting. the skill of an actor is that they can act out different personalities as needed for the film, but if they create a database of whatever personalities you can think of, you only need to find a person to have that personality scan them and add to the database. so anyone can do this job for a day. acting skills are no longer needed, much less acting experience. that means anyone needing a bit of money will be game to be exploited like this. basically we can expect that anything but major roles will be replaced if this is allowed to go through. the actors guild will have to negotiate to somehow disallow or limit the use of AI generated characters. however if you want to create scenes with thousands of people (like the battle scenes in lord of the rings or the hobbit, which were embellished with the help of AI) disallowing AI characters would be too limiting
    - dkh 3y ago
      One of the most fundamental elements of a movie or show is that characters will be thrown into conflict that will challenge them and will come out on the other side (or not) changed in one way or another. That's at the macro level -- at the micro level, you may need to portray a wide range of emotion in a single scene. Nobody is just "one personality" throughout a show. Or a scene. If they can successfully map a thousand different emotions to the same A.I. model believably, then okay, but we are some distance from that yet, and it will be fought heavily when we get there, because a couple hundred thousand people aren't going to roll over and accept that their jobs don't exist anymore

If you don't want to sell your data, don't.

minimaxir 3y ago

Well yes. That's why SAG-AFTRA is going on strike.

ars 3y ago
Isn't the strike to prevent other people from selling their data? You don't have to go on strike to not sell your own data.
- dkh 3y ago
  They are a union. They negotiate as a collective. And its members voted to the tune of 98% in favor of the strike.
  - __loam 3y ago
    I often see anti-union sentiment in tech circles which is hilarious considering how companies like Apple and Microsoft have already tried to fuck us with non-competes.
    - pierat 3y ago
      But you know 100x hyper-libertarian-48lawsofpower-dude can definitely negotiate better than a dirty liberal... Union! (I swear, I've had that exact conversation here, with nearly that same tone. And of course, verbal contortions that they are somehow better individuals with 'special skills'. They're just more meat for the grinder.)
      - __loam 3y ago
        Honestly hoping AI destroys programming first because we absolutely deserve to get hoisted by our own petard here.
      - golergka 3y ago
        Until union tries to force people to become members or force companies to only hire members, it's a completely valid libertarian concept. It’s essentially a cartel of employees. The only people who should have something against it are those who think that monopolies should be broken down.
        pierat 3y ago
        The NLRB forces unions to also negotiate for non-union members. When the NLRB no longer requires negotiating for free-loaders, sure. But if I'm part of a union, you damn straight if you're getting the benefits and getting negotiation, I want you to pay your share.
        Aloisius 3y ago
        Got a source for that? That seems counter to the fact that the NLRB has allowed different benefits and pay for union vs. non-union employees.
        pierat 3y ago
        Gladly! https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/right-to-fair-representation https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/em... I would have to dig for the exact USC codes that construct the below paragraph taken from said website. I don't have that on hand. "Your union has the duty to represent all employees - whether members of the union or not-fairly, in good faith, and without discrimination. This duty applies to virtually every action that a union may take in dealing with an employer as your representative, including collective bargaining, handling grievances, and operating exclusive hiring halls. For example, a union which represents you cannot refuse to process a grievance because you have criticized union officials or because you are not a member of the union. But the duty does not ordinarily apply to rights a worker can enforce independently - such as filing a workers' compensation claim - or to internal union affairs - such as the union's right to discipline members for violating its own rules."
        3y ago
    - ars 3y ago
      You misinterpret my message. It's union irrelevant. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36717457 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36717457 where I flesh out what I'm saying. These unions are in danger of becoming irrelevant.
- throwaway14356 3y ago
  strikes are to bargain collectively. The individual formula will only work for some employees and gradually erode as more are sucked into the void. The choice in this case eventually becomes one between paying or not paying at all which is a completely hilarious deal. You won't have to do any work tho, you will be working elsewhere
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
renata 3y ago
Doesn't the definition of background actor preclude being in SAG though? I thought extras had to be in three or four productions in a year before they got their SAG cards.

mattigames 3y ago

But enough other actors will and it will be much cheaper to use their replica than hiring real actors so even those who didn't sell their data are going to see their income heavily reduced thanks to this antics.

dkh 3y ago
No actors will be able to do this unless SAG-AFTRA negotiates it. SAG-AFTRA does not just represent household names, it's all actors, 160,000 people whether you're the star of feature films or the guy with one line in one episode of a streaming series nobody knows about. This is the point of a union and collective bargaining. Actors aren't able to work outside the bounds of the agreements even if they were willing to.
- em-bee 3y ago
  do they even need actors for this? they need personalities. they scan the personality of thousands of people, and let AI do the acting. the skill of an actor is that they can act out different personalities as needed for the film, but if they create a database of whatever personalities you can think of, you only need to find a person to have that personality scan them and add to the database. so anyone can do this job for a day. acting skills are no longer needed, much less acting experience. that means anyone needing a bit of money will be game to be exploited like this. basically we can expect that anything but major roles will be replaced if this is allowed to go through. the actors guild will have to negotiate to somehow disallow or limit the use of AI generated characters. however if you want to create scenes with thousands of people (like the battle scenes in lord of the rings or the hobbit, which were embellished with the help of AI) disallowing AI characters would be too limiting
  - dkh 3y ago
    One of the most fundamental elements of a movie or show is that characters will be thrown into conflict that will challenge them and will come out on the other side (or not) changed in one way or another. That's at the macro level -- at the micro level, you may need to portray a wide range of emotion in a single scene. Nobody is just "one personality" throughout a show. Or a scene. If they can successfully map a thousand different emotions to the same A.I. model believably, then okay, but we are some distance from that yet, and it will be fought heavily when we get there, because a couple hundred thousand people aren't going to roll over and accept that their jobs don't exist anymore