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Unions are a critical counterbalance to the power of corporations. Hardly perfect, but we'll be sorry when they're gone.

robotnikman 3y ago
With the major advances in AI threatening to further take power from the many and give it to the few, I definitely agree.
- gruez 3y ago
  Unions only work because they can threaten to withhold labor. If AI takes off the and AI replace workers, they'll be unemployed. Unions aren't going to help situation.
  - superb_dev 3y ago
    Sure, but AI is very far from being able to replace writers and actors.
- leotravis10 3y ago
  Considering that actors (live action and voice) are constantly asked to hand over their rights and likeness to companies creating AI and other machine-learning ways (1), it's surely worth fighting for so agreed here. (1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34701086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34701086
- satvikpendem 3y ago
  No, open source AI is booming. It's set to be a more democratizing force than anything, when some kid in on their laptop can make an entire feature length film using just the ideas from their brain rather than having to hire people to produce, direct, act in, and edit their production.
SilasX 3y ago
And a critical counterbalance against automating labor. If you want that.
endisneigh 3y ago
Not really. Ironically the kind of people who frequent this forum will be the ones to end labor once and for all. Unions are only helpful with leverage. For now labor has inherent leverage as capital production fundamentally requires some labor. As AI increases productivity of certain individuals the amount (of people) of productive labor will become less, thus making unions ineffective.
- youarelabor 3y ago
  > Ironically the kind of people who frequent this forum will be the ones to end labor once and for all. you are labor.
- KerrAvon 3y ago
  Wild! And when it doesn't happen this way, are you -- presumably on the "productive" side -- gonna go Galt?
  - endisneigh 3y ago
    It will eventually happen, and it already is happening.
- yafbum 3y ago
  It's not clear that AI will be a productivity boost for writers of any more magnitude than the move from the typewriter to the computer word processor. It can improve productivity, but only marginally so, and without need to replace writers altogether. An AI is about as useful for screenwriting a complex show as a spell checker. The kinds of productivity boosts that studios and streaming houses have already gotten from writers are much simpler and timeless - hire less writers per show, for shorter term contracts, don't pay them residuals based on the show's long-term success, and keep them in the dark about the value of their work by hiding viewership data so that they won't know when they do have leverage individually.
  - endisneigh 3y ago
    I don't know how you could possibly compare AI with the typewriter to word processor evolution.
hayst4ck 3y ago
The opposite of tyranny is not freedom. The opposite of tyranny is solidarity. Freedom is the state of people in power acting responsibly and it can only be expected that they act responsibly if there are consequences for not doing so. If you won't sacrifice for someone else, they won't sacrifice for you. If you won't put yourself at risk, nobody will put themselves at risk for you. When you allow the oppression of others, you allow the oppression of yourself. The opposite of tyranny is supporting your peers and therefore being supported by your peers.

robotnikman 3y ago

With the major advances in AI threatening to further take power from the many and give it to the few, I definitely agree.

gruez 3y ago
Unions only work because they can threaten to withhold labor. If AI takes off the and AI replace workers, they'll be unemployed. Unions aren't going to help situation.
- superb_dev 3y ago
  Sure, but AI is very far from being able to replace writers and actors.
leotravis10 3y ago
Considering that actors (live action and voice) are constantly asked to hand over their rights and likeness to companies creating AI and other machine-learning ways (1), it's surely worth fighting for so agreed here. (1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34701086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34701086
satvikpendem 3y ago
No, open source AI is booming. It's set to be a more democratizing force than anything, when some kid in on their laptop can make an entire feature length film using just the ideas from their brain rather than having to hire people to produce, direct, act in, and edit their production.

SilasX 3y ago

And a critical counterbalance against automating labor. If you want that.

endisneigh 3y ago

Not really. Ironically the kind of people who frequent this forum will be the ones to end labor once and for all. Unions are only helpful with leverage. For now labor has inherent leverage as capital production fundamentally requires some labor. As AI increases productivity of certain individuals the amount (of people) of productive labor will become less, thus making unions ineffective.

youarelabor 3y ago
> Ironically the kind of people who frequent this forum will be the ones to end labor once and for all. you are labor.
KerrAvon 3y ago
Wild! And when it doesn't happen this way, are you -- presumably on the "productive" side -- gonna go Galt?
- endisneigh 3y ago
  It will eventually happen, and it already is happening.
yafbum 3y ago
It's not clear that AI will be a productivity boost for writers of any more magnitude than the move from the typewriter to the computer word processor. It can improve productivity, but only marginally so, and without need to replace writers altogether. An AI is about as useful for screenwriting a complex show as a spell checker. The kinds of productivity boosts that studios and streaming houses have already gotten from writers are much simpler and timeless - hire less writers per show, for shorter term contracts, don't pay them residuals based on the show's long-term success, and keep them in the dark about the value of their work by hiding viewership data so that they won't know when they do have leverage individually.
- endisneigh 3y ago
  I don't know how you could possibly compare AI with the typewriter to word processor evolution.

hayst4ck 3y ago

The opposite of tyranny is not freedom. The opposite of tyranny is solidarity. Freedom is the state of people in power acting responsibly and it can only be expected that they act responsibly if there are consequences for not doing so. If you won't sacrifice for someone else, they won't sacrifice for you. If you won't put yourself at risk, nobody will put themselves at risk for you. When you allow the oppression of others, you allow the oppression of yourself. The opposite of tyranny is supporting your peers and therefore being supported by your peers.